Amber Heard&Johnny Depp trial

[Miscfeminista]

I wanted to hear more thoughts from women who actually don't accuse Amber for being"a faker". I don't want to tip toe around it or argue with people over same thing over and over while they pretend they are unbiased when in fact they just support Depp.

A lot has already been said and I know you need to have diverse opinions for better conversation etc but on the other thread I am, I'm so tired of people victim blaming and chewing over stuff with little substance so I wanted to make a separate one where we can follow the rest of the trial and outcome with our comments and observations(without constantly arguing about feminist basics).

My last thought was that AH witnesses have been consistent so far and have been wondering if they pulled away from her because they didn't want the drama surrounding it(instead of actually finding her guilty, like Depp fans are suggesting).

I'm following it over Sky over ones with commentary(every day around 1-2 afternoon UK time, 9 in the morning US time I believe..trial ends next week, think someone said 27th)

All observations welcome. What stood out to you so far?

That is the gist of what she said in her rebuttal. Maybe not those precise words but something like "even if he hit her once, that doesn't make her a victim of sexual violence". It was disgusting. It really upset me last night that she could casually imply that even if he hit her once, that's ok.

She basically told the jury they had to be 100% convinced everything was true or its all lies. Just bollocks and dangerous bollocks at that.

I didn't listen to Rottenborns response but I hope he comprehensively dismantled that.

"Also, like defamation, perjury involves willful intent to mislead. Her mis speaking about a pledge vs a donation isn't willful and I haven't seen any evidence she intentionally mislead them"

Oh fgs. Of course she misled by that statement. Do you really not understand the difference between a "donation" - the money has gone, no control over it- and "a pledge"- means absolutely nothing- money is still in her account under her control to do whatever she wants with it; including not paying it.

Why would she "pledge" it over 10 years anyway? Charities don't pay tax on income. The money could have gone straight from Depp in one go. Didn't he offer that?

She (Vasquez) adds: “You can’t find that Mr Depp hit her once. Either he hit her countless times, or you can’t believe a single word that comes out of her mouth.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/johnny-depp-amber-heard-trial-ending-closing-arguments-b2088597.html?page=4

Just bollocks

I can't be bothered to engage if you are going to personalise this. We'll see what the jury decide.

“Influenced perhaps but not determined by them. It simply isn't the case that a woman must be the victim simply because she is a woman and a man the perpetrator because he is a man. However, that appears to be the position you are taking with this case.”

It is absolutely determined by it-if you want to go pointlessly in circles then yes it’s”influenced to the point of determination”.
Women make majority of DV victims and an even bigger majority of sexual violence and rape-precisely because they are women. Being a poor woman, woman of colour, with disabilities, having children etc makes this risk all the worse. Your petty attempts of gaslighting and whataboutery are pointless, this is the point I stop engaging. There are no”kinds of feminism”-it either benefits to liberation of all women from bottom to top, or it doesn’t. Your denial it even happens predominantly to women tells me you need to do some research on your own instead of trying to argue with others in hope they might”convert”you(except that will never happen via strawman technique you’re at). “What about that minority percentage of women who even dare to commit crime of any kind”-is not the centre of this discussion or something that could nullify feminism yet you seem to be going after it as it will-good luck with that

i dont see that type of talk from pro AH's. rubbishing everything, belittelling

@bluebell34567 it really is telling. People who support JD have taken on typical bully mentality; it was their ticket to go after women in any way they want as if it’s going to be cathartic almost. Ticket to freely call women bitch, cunt, bastard, liar and whatnot, as well as”let’s go tear other women down”, including feminism. Same old misogyny-women are stupid, “biased”, feminism is”a hoax”. Cases like AHs really unleash it all, this time people are even more pissed because she’s not”a perfect battered wife”(not that there wouldn’t be all mentioned above in that case as well)

That is the gist of what she said in her rebuttal. Maybe not those precise words but something like "even if he hit her once, that doesn't make her a victim of sexual violence". It was disgusting. It really upset me last night that she could casually imply that even if he hit her once, that's ok.

maybe she should apply this in her real life.

definitely bullyish.

“maybe she should apply this in her real life.”

That’s the saddest part-a lot of women defending JD in one way or another actually believe this and have probably been through or are in abusive relationship where it became a norm for them to endure abuse. When they blame AH they basically blame themselves-it’s easy to oversee that among insults they hurl at AH

“My simple point is that once you view cases from an ideological lens based on statistical probabilities you stop paying attention to the actual facts of the case. Amber is a very poor heroine for the feminist cause given her lack of credibility and obvious lies, proven in at least one particular.”

We have been discussing this case for a long time now where you could gather all the arguments where we see the accusations that people point at her and dismantle them or argue otherwise. Unfortunately much like on the other thread most of those comments have been lost in sea of people coming to write”I don’t believe her she’s unlikeable”. I have listened the whole trial, read other peoples perspectives and done some research on her(as well as JD)on the side and still believe on basis of power hierarchy analysis(both”micro and macro”)that she was the one being abused. She has certain amount of privilege but she was still not powerful enough in comparison to JD in all those aspects I mentioned. If you don’t agree that’s fine but at least read what you disagree about instead of saying I didn’t elaborate on things that I and others have too many times already

She has certain amount of privilege but she was still not powerful enough in comparison to JD

She could have left him. There were no children. She had her own money. She must have had easy access to lawyers, her agents and high powered friends.

The reality is that you believe Amber was abused and not the abuser simply because she is a woman and therefore more likely to be abused,

I believe Johnny abused Amber based on the evidence in court. I don't know whether or not she was also abusive.

It's not black and white, him or her. And this case is about whether he was abusive. And he was. If he was, the op ed was not defamatory.

It really is that simple and all this "she lied" is irrelevant. You basically have to believe he has proved he was not abusive. He hasn't done that.

Unfortunately leopolds domestic abuse is more than violence. You appear to be uninformed about what abuse is. Why do you think coercive control was made a crime in this country?

We define domestic abuse as an incident or pattern of incidents of controlling, coercive, threatening, degrading and violent behaviour, including sexual violence, in the majority of cases by a partner or ex-partner, but also by a family member or carer. It is very common. In the vast majority of cases it is experienced by women and is perpetrated by men.
www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/

Domestic abuse is not always physical violence. It can also include:
coercive control and ‘gaslighting’
economic abuse
online abuse
threats and intimidation
emotional abuse
sexual abuse
www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-abuse-how-to-get-help#recognise-domestic-abuse

www.healthline.com/health/relationships/cycle-of-abuse

This is why the case is so damaging. Its polarising views and playing on myths about abuse. Johnny bought this case so that's on him

All of that @AdamRyan. I’m baffled how many women are trying to deny those very things that would save them from their abusers-I guess all those crowded womens shelters got it wrong and”are biased”. It seems they are just letting all the poor men victimised by women out in the streets because they are biased man haters.

Someone said she had the money to leave-well exactly because of what I said above, she didn’t even consider this abusive relationship, she just thought they love each other and can make it work in their own way. When he already ruined her physically and mentally and she went for way out, he tried to make her bankrupt as well via these lawsuits and whatnot. It’s terribly naive to think it’s so easy to break up. It’s how many women get murdered-because they tried to leave the relationship. Money doesn’t necessarily save you from murder either

I think the other forms can be pretty easily proved from the photos and texts and audiotapes as testimonies of others that he was angry, violent and had blackouts . And that she was this too. It's the physical violence she struggled with even with the photos.

Damaging to who or what?
Anyone who is a victim of domestic abuse will suffer by making it so people are judged to by lying unless they can prove in court to some high standard they were hit.

As per the closing argument....
Think about the message that Mr. Depp and his attorneys are send to Amber and by extension to every victim of domestic abuse and everywhere,” Heard’s attorney Benjamin Rottenborn said. “If you didn’t take pictures, it didn’t happen. If you did take pictures, they’re fake. If you didn’t tell your friends, they’re lying. If you did tell your friends, they’re part of the hoax. If you didn’t seek medical treatment, you weren’t injured. If you did seek medical treatment, you’re crazy.”

The cabinets video was awful. He was rage filled and smashing things up. That is abusive.