Single sex toilets and muslim women

[peonyred]

Since I am constantly being met with the "be kind" bollox and clearly am not perceived as being "kind", I have started asking people (mostly men and young people) how they feel about the fact that allowing men into women's loos means Muslim women and orthodox Jewish women cannot use them - at all. Therefore they have no access to any public toilets. TW can use unisex, mens or women's but their insistence on their rights to women's loos has shut out a significant number of women. This is without mentioning sexual abuse survivors (which appears not to register) First - am I right about this? Second, is there a Muslim woman out there who (with our backing) takes this to court? Is this the way though or am I kidding myself we'll ever get our spaces back?

@Mandodari I completely agree men in men women in women's. I am objecting to alligning and piling in behind religious beliefs and not the most liberal or feminist factions of those religions either and using them to shape usage of public spaces. Holding up orthadox Jewishness and that fraction of Islam as bastions of liberal feminism doesn't sit well with me. As I said the enemy of thy enemy isn't always thy friend.

Other English speaking countries don’t have female only swimming sessions. I find it bizarre the uk does.

….if male only was offered, it would be equality, but it’s not.

I’m not sure about that as my friend who went there said Grindr was full of men showing their faces

Indeed I know many men who would prefer men only swimming sessions.

If public facilities/ work / gym /pool changing rooms were males ,mixed and. Female only, despite what some might say, I could guarantee that 99% of women would use the female facility. Leaving the mixed for the genuinely confused . However I could also guarantee that there will still be males wanting to use the female one for the purpose of validation, voyeurism or violence. Women are saying no. Get over it.

If men want men only swimming sessions then they can campaign for them.

Removing women only spaces isn't the answer.

I would guarantee that 100% of women would use those changing rooms. The rest would those wanting to get their end away.

I don’t even like coming out of a shower with my towel on in front of other women.

Its rare to see any changing rooms that are open in clothing shops or even swimming pools.

I did go to an open changing area at the swimming pool, there was cubicles. looking back there is such a big risk that someone could take a video etc. Plus it’s harder to shower children naked etc.

It’s a double standard though? No one is stating they should be removed, but why aren’t you fighting for them? Feminists wants alies, but I guess if only fighting for them.

Why should I fight for my local people to have a men's only session. I don't care if they have one or not. If men want one that's their fight. I don't even know any men who would want mens only sessions. They don't care. They want to swim and then leave. So I'd be fighting for nothing.

Women do care. Women do want womens only sessions.

Think equity, not equality.
Equal opportunities does not always reap equal outcomes. Societies should be aspiring to equal outcomes and one of the ways of achieving this is to target resources towards those who are currently underrepresented.
Women only swimming sessions is a way of levelling up access.

Local pool, not people.

@Helloahoy
That's weird, when I lived in Christchurch NZ, there were women only swimming classes. I grew up and now live back in Ireland and could and can attend women only swim classes. Both countries speak English.
A quick Google of the situation in Canada threw up this
www.toronto.ca
Australia this
www.movemv.com.au/swim/womens-only-swimming

Maybe it's not as rare as you think.

Why live in the UK?? Because I happen to be British, not from 'Islamistan' or wherever you think Muslim people come from! I send my daughter to a Muslim group because it is the only one where I am confident she will not be sharing sleeping facilities or showers with males when away on camps, or won't have male adults providing any type of intimate care. I don't think those are unreasonable demands. For the record I don't mind calling people whatever names they fancy. I mind female-only spaces disappearing because that means many places become inaccessible to whole groups of women for various reasons, and as far as I am aware gender-neutral spaces are less safe for women.

@Helloahoy the problem with "normal" girl guiding is that the organisation leadership have lost sight of what a girl is, therefore you may encounter a man who presents as a transwoman in a position of leadership and a boy who presents as a transgirl in your daughter's tent. Hence, a parent of any religion might have well justified concerns that this is not a single sex organisation.

Anyone can go to a pool, anyone. There isn’t a barrier to entry.… unless you mean a misogynist culture that means females are excluded because they have to cover their body…. Yeah, well it’s that culture not the greater culture that needs to be address.

Also what about males, shouldn’t they be allowed space for themselves away from females who have been abusers in their lives?

No they are not women, they are trans identifying men, nothing less or more. HTH

Wow.

It is quite amazing how in the rush to privilege men, how every other group is quickly thrown under the bus and a whole lot of dubious stuff appears.

BTW it’s been the “culture” to have single sex spaces in Britain for - ooh, centuries. Perfectly “culturally British” to not want your small girl encountering a man in the loo or at guide camp, no?

You seem pretty young and inexperienced, Helloahoy. I recommend you think about quitting now, before your posts get even more offensive.

I’m saying that trans women have every right to use a women’s toilet. How would you propose to stop them? It’s not about ‘refusing to respect female only spaces

Well, yes it is about refusing to respect female only spaces.

How would you police this? There are trans women out there who physically look like women and if I'm not mistaken, literally are classed legally as women.