husband called me a terf 😡

[3kidsandcounting2022]

Dd 8 had always preferred playing with boys and most of her interests aren't things her other peers dont like or understand. She has been saying she wants to be a boy for a while now and my response is that she can't be and she cant wear and play with what she likes.
She wears clothing from the boy section and she can play with anything she wants. Anyway dh is under the impression that she is transgender and we need to support her with it.
Long story short we had a massive row that ended in him calling me a terf.
I honestly dont know what to do :(

Grumblemonster · 28/04/2022 11:59

Sorry. Haven't RTFF, limited internet time, got to p4. But I'd like to tell you about what my Dad said to someone who suggested it might be an idea to have my sticky-out ears pinned back when I was a baby (far less invasive and fraught with side effects than a medicalised transition): "No one lays a finger on my perfect baby."

Grumblemonster, re:

No one lays a finger on my perfect baby

I think that says everything. How wonderful of your dad.

Sure.

"Based on the data reviewed, we hypothesize that gender identity is a multifactorial complex trait with a heritable polygenic component."

www.researchgate.net/profile/Isabel-Esteva/publication/323261652_The_Biological_Contributions_to_Gender_Identity_and_Gender_Diversity_Bringing_Data_to_the_Table/links/5c66cecca6fdcc404eb43ad5/The-Biological-Contributions-to-Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Diversity-Bringing-Data-to-the-Table.pdf

"De-transitioning after surgical interventions, as in Nowak’s case, is exceedingly rare. Research has often put the percentage of regret between 1 and 2 percent. A Swedish study of trans men and women who went through what is increasingly referred to as gender affirming surgery (as opposed to “sexual reassignment surgery” or “sex change”) found zero cases of regret out of 59 people; 95 percent of patients felt their lives had improved post-transition.

Also:
"There were 15 (5 MF and 10 MF) regret applications corresponding to a 2.2 % regret rate for both sexes."

www.researchgate.net/profile/Cecilia-Dhejne/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets/links/57013cae08aea6b7746a7a65/An-Analysis-of-All-Applications-for-Sex-Reassignment-Surgery-in-Sweden-1960-2010-Prevalence-Incidence-and-Regrets.pdf?origin=publication_detail

No, I mean twin studies which look at the difference between fraternal and identical twins show that there is a hereditable component. It's entirely unlike a religious belief, and more than an inclination to happiness is.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22146048/

I wouldn’t be generalising from that sample.

That linked data is 12 years old and isn't it Sweden that have just announced that they're stopping affirmative surgery and medication for children. Something has changed presumably? Maybe the following 12 years has seen rising numbers of detransition? (I am speculating)

Well, where to start. Sample size. Confounding factors. Language used. The fact that the first sentence is "the etiology remains largely unknown" and lots of 'possiblies"

And it is 11 years old, with no further evidence being published to back it up. There is some, but all equally tentative!

As for detransitioners - THEY DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRACK THEM!

And there are a growing number of personal stories about just that, post puberty transitioning, especially in young women.

Just as there is a growing amount of evidence that transitioning does NOTHING to alleviate negative feelings of self, suicide ideation etc. That's real life tracking across many cohorts, many ages, with no preconceived ideas bending data.

Though of course, this is all up for debate, just as many other genetic predispositions are, for many of the same reasons, all well known obfuscators of twin study data.

Yes, @Beamur it is, isnt it.

That was just one paper. It's not a contraversial issue - there are plenty more. Here's an overview - you can find more yourself.

www.researchgate.net/publication/323261652_The_Biological_Contributions_to_Gender_Identity_and_Gender_Diversity_Bringing_Data_to_the_Table

...detransitioners post-puberty are vanishingly rare.

There is a detrans subreddit with 28,000 members and it's growing all the time. Their stories are heartbreaking. We have no idea about how many young people detransition because there is no follow up for them, no reliable date collected and no medical support.

DadJoke You are apparently neither female, nor trans, and have no "lived experience" of misogyny, the female experience of puberty, and are arguing with those who do, and whose concerns for young women are rooted in those experiences. Do you ever take a hard look at your arrogance here?

Further, you are not even keeping up with the data.

This was in October 2021

Abstract

Background

UK adult gender identity clinics (GICs) are implementing a new streamlined service model. However, there is minimal evidence from these services underpinning this. It is also unknown how many service users subsequently ‘detransition’.

Aims

To describe service users’ access to care and patterns of service use, specifically, interventions accessed, reasons for discharge and re-referrals; to identify factors associated with access; and to quantify ‘detransitioning’.

Method

A retrospective case-note review was performed as a service evaluation for 175 service users consecutively discharged by a tertiary National Health Service adult GIC between 1 September 2017 and 31 August 2018. Descriptive statistics were used for rates of accessing interventions sought, reasons for discharge, re-referral and frequency of detransitioning. Using multivariate analysis, we sought associations between several variables and ‘accessing care’ or ‘other outcome’.

Results

The treatment pathway was completed by 56.1%. All interventions initially sought were accessed by 58%; 94% accessed hormones but only 47.7% accessed gender reassignment surgery; 21.7% disengaged; and 19.4% were re-referred. Multivariate analysis identified coexisting neurodevelopmental disorders (odds ratio [OR] = 5.7, 95% CI = 1.7–19), previous adverse childhood experiences (ACEs) per reported ACE (OR = 1.5, 95% CI = 1.1–1.9), substance misuse during treatment (OR = 4.3, 95% CI = 1.1–17.6) and mental health concerns during treatment (OR = 2.2, 95% CI 1.1–4.4) as independently associated with accessing care. Twelve people (6.9%) met our case definition of detransitioning.

Conclusions

Service users may have unmet needs. Neurodevelopmental disorders or ACEs suggest complexity requiring consideration during the assessment process. Managing mental ill health and substance misuse during treatment needs optimising. Detransitioning might be more frequent than previously reported.

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-open/article/access-to-care-and-frequency-of-detransition-among-a-cohort-discharged-by-a-uk-national-adult-gender-identity-clinic-retrospective-casenote-review/3F5AC1315A49813922AAD76D9E28F5CB

6.9% is not "vanishingly rare".

I'd buy a lottery ticket tonight if I had that chance of winning!

He won't listen. He never has done before. He has his answers and nothing will even make him reconsider anything.

Nevertheless, useful for others to consider.

Readers, what does Dadjoke know of, for example:
• menstruation,
• the sensory discomfort and distress that autistic girls (particularly over-represented amongst female transitioners) experience as they feel the constant leaking of menstrual flow,
• men and boys implying that you're irrational by asking if you're having your period
• hunching over to conceal your developing breasts on the way to school because of adult men wolf-whistling out of cars
• boys pinging bra-straps and making comments on your breasts
• learning, while still a child to cope with becoming somehow visible to adult men in a way you weren't just a year ago
• learning to feign appreciation of wolf-whistles and cat-calls, because you've found that if you pretend you didn't notice, you get sworn at for being a stuck up bitch
• choosing routes that don't take you past areas when groups of male teens hang-out, because they impress their mates by shouting obscenities at girls
• female menopause (female transitioners who have their ovaries removed are thrown into menopause), hot flushes, brain fog,
• risk of complications from mastectomies (30% risk of longterm pain in the site, due to nerve damage and so on. That's worth it when the breasts are cancerous. Is it worth it when you're a teenager?)
• the particular way misogyny and homophobia intersect for lesbians, and how men and women, but particularly men, feel entitled to ask invasive questions about your sex life.

This is all very relevant information that informs my analysis of what is going on here.