husband called me a terf 😡

[3kidsandcounting2022]

Dd 8 had always preferred playing with boys and most of her interests aren't things her other peers dont like or understand. She has been saying she wants to be a boy for a while now and my response is that she can't be and she cant wear and play with what she likes.
She wears clothing from the boy section and she can play with anything she wants. Anyway dh is under the impression that she is transgender and we need to support her with it.
Long story short we had a massive row that ended in him calling me a terf.
I honestly dont know what to do :(

I just lost a really long post (thanks site upgrade!) but the vastly cut down version is - get him to read the interim Cass Report. He thinks he's doing the right-on, kind and compassionate thing, but it sounds like he is very uninformed.

Information is only just coming to light about the trainwreck of gender ideology and its impact on children. Hopefully by the time your daughter is approaching puberty and starting secondary school a lot more sunlight will have poured into the murky world behind the glitter and rainbows and he'll see how right you were. Until then he is not to make decisions about your daughter's identity or attach labels to her that she has not chosen herself. (And he can apologise for using a misogynistic slur and maybe examine his attitude to women speaking up for their rights.)

telling her she can change sex with older is in her best interests for the love of god, how and why would this be in her best interests? Do we tell anorexics they can be the thinnest person in the world and help them to achieve that?

I would ask your husband to slow the fuck down. I would actually tell him he needs to stop and do a fuckton more research and thinking.

What a very hard situation, OP.

I do think taking the heat right out of it is crucial. Ask questions. Keep asking questions (of your husband, not your daughter!).

I'd also refer him to Sajid Javid's recent speech/article on front page of the Times.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0fea92e4-c265-11ec-8413-422ef6319ad0?shareToken=4148076e1049a01c5199f002bbcc9e15

‘When she's older he wants us to support her by getting her referred to a local gender clinic.’

How does he think he is anywhere near qualified to make that call, when he has only just started researching the topic?

How dare he mansplain to you what books you should read in an area he doesn’t understand himself?

I’d tell him absolutely no, you will not be indulging him. She is female. Sometimes female children like pursuits and clothes that aren’t mandated by stereotype. And that is exactly fine. He needs to back off.

Tell him to look up:

The failure rate of phalloplasty.

The effects of putting young women into menopause (which is what transition does).

Is he aware of the risks of brittle bones? Sterility? Loss of sexual function as an adult?

Is he aware there are no serious long term studies about outcomes for trans teens on current treatment regimes - this is experimental.

Is he aware of the Cass report
cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

...or that several senior clinicians and other senior staff have left GIDS and the Tavistock over their concerns over how children have been treated? (google Dr David Bell, Kirsty Entwhistle, Marcus Evans, and also Keira Bell's court case which was supported by ex-GIDS nurse Sue Evans).

Is he aware that 80% of children no longer feel trans after puberty, but if you give them blockers, 98% go on to cross sex hormones.

He needs to do some serious research, and not from trans advocacy groups but serious sources like NICE and the Cass review.

And calling you TERF? He can fuck right off.

For years, Sharissa Derricott, 30, had no idea why her body seemed to be failing. At 21, a surgeon replaced her deteriorated jaw joint. She’s been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and fibromyalgia, a chronic pain condition. Her teeth are shedding enamel and cracking.
None of it made sense to her until she discovered a community of women online who describe similar symptoms and have one thing in common: All had taken a drug called Lupron.
Thousands of parents chose to inject their daughters with the drug, which was approved to shut down puberty in young girls but also is commonly used off-label to help short kids grow taller.

Continues
A report on the effects on girls who were prescribed puberty blockers TEMPORARILY

She may be trans but it is too early to know if she would want to transition. Your DH is unreasonable to assume that trans=transitioning in future. You are unreasonable to reject all possibility of your daughter being trans out of hand.

Many trans people are under the non-binary umbrella of gender identities and have no wish to transition to the opposite gender. They often keep their birth pronouns or go by they/them.

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know. Your job as parents is to educate her about what is trans, what that may mean for her and her options in terms of how she identifies. This should be taught alongside sexuality and how it is separate from gender identity.

Of course, if one of you doesn’t think trans people even exist then you’re going to be incompatible…

Get him to look at some of the posts on the detrans subreddit. Many are suffering with long term issues from taking hormones and struggling to get support to detransition due to hate from the trans community.

I completely understand why he feels the need to support his child especially with his family history but he is going in blind. Transitioning isn't at all comparable to sexual preference.

Stick to your guns OP.

I think you are doing the right thing . Let her play with whatever toys she likes and wear what she wants.The rest can wait .

my daughter was the biggest Tomboy out even in her teens doing building courses etc. but she certainly is not trans .

Osteoporosis isn't fun in your 40s, let alone in your 20s.

Which is what happens when you block puberty and give kids the same drugs that they use to castrate rapists.

At the moment nothing apart from wanting me to look a a book he's ordered from amozen

Read the book, then have him read a book of your choosing about trans. It’s only going to help if you both read the same body of research and communicate with each other. If you’re concerned about the real long term effects of puberty blockers and the limits of gender confirmation surgery…by all means have him read about how limited that is as an option, the risks and things that can go wrong, the rate of regret.

Transitioning is an option in her future if she wants it, but I don’t think your DH would want to recommend that to her without being educated on how risky it is.

Your Dd can’t be making decisions in a vacuum of marketing or activism slogans, you both need to read all the different science on it in order to guide her appropriately.

For context his older brother was pretty much abandoned by their parents due to being gay so i think part of him doesn't want to repeat mistakes.

Right I think this is important as you can kind of see where he’s coming from. However he is very ill informed, so needs to educate himself. Previous posters have given lots of excellent links here, I suggest he reads them.

And you should tell him what books to read as well. Trans, Material Girls, Irreversible Damage. When he’s read them and can tell you why he’s still right, then I’d listen.

Buy him a copy of Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier.

Hopefully someone here can remember which judge it was who stated TERF was a slur. I would politely by firmly tell him if he wants an adult conversation about the best interests of your daughter he would be wise not to start with insults. Show him the "TERF is a slur" website and ask him if he still align's with the sort of people who use that term.

terfisaslur.com/

And if he's interested in learning about how gender ideology is affecting women around the world then I would direct him to women are human.

www.womenarehuman.com/

And tell him to stop throwing his weight around from a position of ignorance because it makes him look like a misogynist.

I climbed on barn roofs as a child and did all sorts of rather frightening stuff (carefully hidden from parents), played with boys but also with girls, was fully aware of the fact that boys were allowed to do more interesting stuff and were not required to do so much support work at home and I was angry about that.

But I never thought I was a boy. Perhaps today I would have been told that I am?

The confusion of sex roles and stereotypes with what a female person is looks extremely frightening to me.

We are rapidly going to 1950s gender roles for all who are unwilling to medically alter their bodies or to declare themselves as members of the very tiny group of non-binary (actual human beings). Everyone else will be assumed to be content with sexist gender roles.

I am sorry, OP, that your husband called you a TERF. Perhaps you could read what he wants you to read, and then he could read what you want him to read? I recommend Helen Joyce's Trans and Kathleen Stock's Material Girls.

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know

Do we have a definition of trans now? I've not seen one.

This is also a very common part of many children's childhood. Exploring who they are.
No need to promise or expect anything in the future. Just let her find what she likes/wears/plays with. None of this makes her transgender. Many girls do not fit stereotypes of being female. Doesn't make them less female.
It's actually more like 80/90% of gender questioning children that desist.
Gender clinics and the whole affirmation protocols are being reviewed at the moment - look up the Cass report interim findings. Might make your DH pause in thinking this path is such a good idea. The experts are questioning it right now. Places such as Sweden which were treating and medicating children have recently said they're no longer going to do so. Leading trans surgeons in the US also saying publicly that maybe this isn't quite so rosy after all..
Frankly, be a terf if it protects your child from having the time and space to make up their own mind.

‘I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know.’

No child is trans. Transition is something adults decide to do because it makes them feel more comfortable (usually because of severe distress). Whatever else she is, she is absolutely not (currently) transgender.

I would show your husband p57 of The Interim Cass Review cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

The diagram shows all the possible outcomes.

Remember that prehistoric term TOMBOY? nobody thought these girls were really boys . They just thought they naturally enjoyed playing with the lads, short hair, trousers, rough and tumble.
Some of those girls grew up to be lesbians. Some didn't. Some never liked feminine clothes/pursuits.
Some did.
Nobody, as far as I know, rushed them to a doctor for sex change hormones......

I would not argue between the two of you over whether she is trans or not trans, neither of you can know, only she can know. Your job as parents is to educate her about what is trans, what that may mean for her and her options in terms of how she identifies.

So, only she can know what trans is, yet it's her parent's job to educate her?

How does that work?

It might be worth finding out what they're being taught at school.

Firstly, tell him lots of girls feel this way - it doesn't mean they're trans.

Secondly, tell him that lots of lesbians feel this way. If he is supportive of gay people then he should understand to leave your daughter alone and let her find out about herself in her own good time.

So your husband believes in sexist stereotypes? He’s the bigot, not you

Even after a century of women’s liberation, it’s still quite logical for girls to see where the fun and the power are in this world. Boys still dominate classrooms and playgrounds and so on and on.

So no wonder little girls want to be boys.

ask your husband if he believes in deeply old fashioned and sexist stereotypes. That might get him thinking?

You need to support your daughter - don't tell her she can't be something or she will push even more!

eh? A person cannot change sex. Doesn’t matter who tells them they can or can’t, or how much they push for it, they will always be female.

‘You need to support your daughter - don't tell her she can't be something or she will push even more!’

What if she thinks she’s a pony?

Some things are impossible. She will never be male. When she is grown up she can - if she wants - live as she thinks a male might live.