What is a Woman? Advert. The tide is truly turning...

[Appalonia]

"Florida-based watch manufacturer Egard Watches has created an ad spot in defense of biological women’s rights.

What are the details?
The video opens with footage of accomplished women, including female athletes and others, and shows women through the decades and even centuries fighting for equal rights.

"What is a woman?" the female narrator says. "Is women's history of achievements quickly being erased? Is a woman a feminine force of nature? Is a woman a sister, a daughter, a mother? Is a woman the wonder of childbirth?"

"Is a woman a caregiver?" the narrator continues. "Is a woman a warrior who fought for her place?"

The video continues, "Is that now being taken away, soon to be forgotten? Is that not worth protecting? And how long do we sit idly by and not stand for the sacred value of womanhood as it loses all meaning?"

"Because we believe that womanhood is a birthright," the narrator concludes.

What else?
In a statement provided to Blaze Media, Egard CEO Ilan Srulovicz said, “The overwhelming majority of Americans are appalled by Big Tech, Big Business, and Big Government’s coordinated campaign to erase the hard-fought gains earned by untold millions of amazing women in our society."

"Yet, almost nobody is speaking for them," Srulovicz continued. "We crafted an ad campaign that celebrates our grandmothers, mothers, sisters, aunts, and daughters, and everything they represent to paint a stark contrast to the lies we are all being told."

Srulovicz added, "The push for transgender rights is no longer about equality, it’s now a cleverly-crafted lie that comes at the expense of women. We ask all Americans to join us to speak truth.”

This is a VERY powerful advert

IsabelaMadrigal

I suspect that what we'd find is that you would have a variety of different positions within feminism. Which is already true to an extent of course, there are already feminists who think freedom for women means allowing sex work, and feminists who think the opposite.

But it would probably explicitly mean we would have to stop saying things like "that viewpoint help by lots of women is bad because it's not feminist" and actually make arguments on their merits. That might lose a certain amount of rhetorical power, but increasingly to me it seems like feminism in this acts as other forms of identity politics, to elevate the views of some members of said groups while discrediting or simply denying the existence of others.

Arguments on their merits is certainly the way to go, but I do think the concepts of feminism are often short-handed into the word.

As a time poor poster, I do appreciate being able to say something like:

I believe sex work to be against the fundamental aims of feminism.

And yes, I could then boil it down to why, mentioning all the meta ways porn culture harms growing teens, how it highlights inequality in men and women because it's an industry that women are overrepresented and yet other industries seem to keep women at bay, how it hides trafficked victims and fuels extreme and violent attitudes towards women and children etc.

I guess what I am saying is it's useful to be able to use it as shorthand, without having to write an essay, but I can see why the 'one feminist viewpoint' is harmful.

That being said, I do think Mumsnet is excellent because generally posters will take time to explain and go into detail on their views. Except I see much more willingness to do this on the less liberal feminist side, but obviously I'm bringing my own bias to that, although I did start from a more liberal standpoint, it's just I've been persuaded more by radical (is that the right word, seems inaccurate) views.

But yes, rambling aside, voices shouldn't need to be cancelled as a just cause etc should stand up to scrutiny and may evolve over time.

I wonder if some of the dog whistles in this ad are lost on a British audience and I'd be interested in what other American MNers think about this.

I understand (or am under the impression that I understand) objections to purity politics but the American religious right isn't just objectionable because 'right wing' or whatever, they are actually eroding essential women's healthcare like abortion and birth control. This is happening to American women right now. Granting us our sacred womanhood with one hand, taking away our healthcare with the other. Not in some nebulous idealistic identity politics space but in real life.

If a British political party was acknowledging biololgical femaleness as well as shutting down abortion rights would we (GC/feminists) vote for them?

Who's behind this advert?

It comes across as conservative, put-women-back-in-our-boxes nonsense.

Women are caregivers? So, it's our birthright to do all the wiping of bums, is it?

And to be pretty, and keep fucking smiling while we do it.

This is sexist drivel.

FFS, gender ideology will certainly succeed in driving back women's rights if women align with such sexist tripe in response.

This is why we desperately need the left to speak out, to stand up for the feminist message that there is more than one way to be a woman.

You don't need to be a caregiver, or a mother, or be pretty, or feminine, fucking smile all the time. You can do all those things or none and STILL be a woman. You can be butch as fuck, unsmiling, masculine, and not give a fuck about anyone else and you are STILL as much a woman as any other woman.

Please, people, see this for what it is!

Yes, we desperately need people to stand up against gender ideology publicly, but not at the expense of everything or foremothers fought for!

*our foremothers

@Darkandlong

I just ordered the necklace! I found an Egards coupon code online and got $5 off. HOLIDAY20

Thanks, I'll hunt that out.

It's exciting to find a company that supports women's rights.

This company does NOT support women's rights!

It supports a sexist, conservative view of the world that seeks to undo the work of the feminist movement.

Women are not born to be feminine, or to be caregivers. That's the kind of ideology that has us all chained to the kitchen sink, expecting us to smile and look pretty while doing all the shitwork.

That's not women's rights.

Brilliant. How extraordinary.

It did not just show pretty/feminine or caters.

This company does NOT support women's rights!

I think it has a very feminist/pro women message and tbh I'm sick of people coming on here and telling women what they should do with their money.

@Cremeggtwist

This company does NOT support women's rights!

I think it has a very feminist/pro women message and tbh I'm sick of people coming on here and telling women what they should do with their money.

You can do what you want with your money

But if you think that video is a feminist message, you've misunderstood feminism. Words have meanings.

The word woman means something.

Feminism means something.

Just making meanings up for words so they mean what you want them to, is what got us in this mess in the first place.

Woman = adult human female.

Feminism = the fight for women's liberation from the patriarcy i.e. systems which perpetute male power and female subordination.

The concept of feminity is one of the ways in which a male dominated society keeps women in check. As is the idea that women are born to do the shit work, that it's natural that we're the help-humans.

To say women are born to be feminine and carers is anti-feminist, whether you recognise it or not.

(That's not to say that women shouldn't be feminine, not caring, but that a masculine women who doesn't perform any caring roles isn't ' any less of a woman than a feminine one who does).

@beastlyslumber

I just would prefer companies to stay out of politics all together. I don't need a watch to be a statement about my political views any more than I need a washing powder to be lgbt inclusive or a supermarket to promote BLM. The merging of corporate interests with political ones is not a good idea for society generally.

Agree 100%. We are partly in this mess because big corporations jumped on the bandwagon of “progressive” causes as a way of deflecting criticism following the 2008 financial crises (Vivek Ramaswamy: Woke Inc is an interesting read on this). They chose identity politics issues in particular as of no cost to themselves (as opposed to causes calling for real economic change) and gender identity ideology was perfect in that respect.

This advert does not mark a turning of the tide. It is simply appealing to a different market.

I understand the complaints various posters have made against this ad, that is insidious, far-right propaganda that enforces the stereotypes of women as feminine and caring, and in doing this props up the patriarchy.

But I saw it show women as athletes, in the judiciary, fighting for the vote, being allowed to have single sexed space in sports, in prison, being allowed to be called “mothers”, being women even when they are old; and I heard the message saying being a woman is a birthright (so non-biological women are not women).

Given what has been going on, including erasure of the words ‘woman’ and ‘mother’, to me this seems a good start in at least allowing talk about the erosion of the idea of women that has crept up.

@NonnyMouse1337 thank you! That's far more the sort of thing I'm after.

Women ARE carers.

That's just a fact. Maybe in a no-gender utopia (which is neither possible nor would prove to be actually Utopian) men and women would be carers equally. I have doubts. Caring is so bound up with images of motherhood, and unless we start growing babies in bags, I don't see that changing. Look at the history of art, it's just a ubiquitous association.

But it any case, women are carers, now, and they have been carers in the past. Maybe the odd radfem would like that association to simply disappear but in general I don't know that the majority of women would be totally on board, which I think is more important than whether someone thinks its feminist

@crispinglovershighkick

I wonder if some of the dog whistles in this ad are lost on a British audience and I'd be interested in what other American MNers think about this.

I understand (or am under the impression that I understand) objections to purity politics but the American religious right isn't just objectionable because 'right wing' or whatever, they are actually eroding essential women's healthcare like abortion and birth control. This is happening to American women right now. Granting us our sacred womanhood with one hand, taking away our healthcare with the other. Not in some nebulous idealistic identity politics space but in real life.

If a British political party was acknowledging biololgical femaleness as well as shutting down abortion rights would we (GC/feminists) vote for them?

This is important. I think you're right, the British audience are missing the dog whistles in this ad.

That if they take it at surface value, they're missing a whole load of baggage here.

Oooo, they do have a neckless! Its lovely.

Now do I want one or one for me and one as a gift...

@MangyInseam

Women ARE carers.

That's just a fact. Maybe in a no-gender utopia (which is neither possible nor would prove to be actually Utopian) men and women would be carers equally. I have doubts. Caring is so bound up with images of motherhood, and unless we start growing babies in bags, I don't see that changing. Look at the history of art, it's just a ubiquitous association.

But it any case, women are carers, now, and they have been carers in the past. Maybe the odd radfem would like that association to simply disappear but in general I don't know that the majority of women would be totally on board, which I think is more important than whether someone thinks its feminist

In America - where this ad is from - the religious right are a hugely powerful force in society and in politics. It's very different to the UK.

The American religious right's beliefs about motherhood and about women being carers and being naturally feminine are influening policy.

As crispinglovershighkick pointed out, it's exactly these kinds of beliefs that lead to things like abortion increasingly being outlawed in the States, decreased access to contraception for women and to women being forced to continue with pregnancies of babies who have no chance of survival.

The idea that women a woman's role should be to be feminine, to become a mother and a carer, is sexism.

This advert isn't for women's rights. It's for a conservative and sexist view of women. It's lovely and glossy with high production values, sure. But that's the point of advertising, to persuade you. This ad is about persuading you to buy the watches and also to buy into these ideas.

Where does a gender-non-comforming / butch lesbian fit into this worldview? Or young woman who want to get into mechanics or science? Or to be a leader in politics or business? Nowhere.

If you want to go back 70 years and argue a woman's place is in the home, go for it. But this is the feminist board, expect to be challenged.

I'm not really interested in your purity spirals @notwhatineednow or your advice on how to be a feminist.

Oooo, they do have a neckless! Its lovely.

Now do I want one or one for me and one as a gift...

I'm getting two also, they'd make a great way to identify each other whilst we're out and about

Absolutely fantastic!!!

notwhatineednow

Where does a gender-non-comforming / butch lesbian fit into this worldview? Or young woman who want to get into mechanics or science? Or to be a leader in politics or business? Nowhere.

I don’t think I know of any ads where gender non conforming butch lesbians are included.

They also show a woman recently elected to the judiciary - negatively in that she said she could not provide a definition of a woman - but she is there.

They do not call a mother a birthing parent, or a woman a cervix haver or some such. They call out trans women in sports and in prisons when this has been effectively taboo. So I think the positive idea outweighs the negative even though I can understand what you mean.

I really don't have much time for people telling me I should ignore things because of "dogwhistles" which is a term meant to shut down discussion just as much as claims of transphobia. I don't even live in the UK, I have a pretty up front view of the American media.

It's true that the public discourse on issue is often a little different there. However I think the tendency to imagine American conservatives, including American conservative women, are all involved in weird cults that want to oppress women, is just incredibly flat. It's just not true. Yes, they do value motherhood and think it's linked in an important way to womanhood. Trying to deny that kind of link is a big part of why we are where we are now.

@MangyInseam

I really don't have much time for people telling me I should ignore things because of "dogwhistles" which is a term meant to shut down discussion just as much as claims of transphobia. I don't even live in the UK, I have a pretty up front view of the American media.

It's true that the public discourse on issue is often a little different there. However I think the tendency to imagine American conservatives, including American conservative women, are all involved in weird cults that want to oppress women, is just incredibly flat. It's just not true. Yes, they do value motherhood and think it's linked in an important way to womanhood. Trying to deny that kind of link is a big part of why we are where we are now.

Words have meanings.

If you think that women should be caregivers and men should be protectors, solely because of the sex that we're born, then that's not a feminist view of the world but a conservative, sexist one.

(That doesn't mean feminists can't recognise that motherhood is linked to womanhood or that the reality is that right now, women do most of the caring).

Posting this venn diagram, again, as it's shows the differences well.

Both feminists and conservatives oppose gender ideoogy, but for different reasons.

And, sometimes your enemy's enemy is also your enemy.

I'm curious, what do posters here think of the same company's video on what they think being a man is all about?

@ScrollingLeaves

notwhatineednow

Where does a gender-non-comforming / butch lesbian fit into this worldview? Or young woman who want to get into mechanics or science? Or to be a leader in politics or business? Nowhere.

I don’t think I know of any ads where gender non conforming butch lesbians are included.

They also show a woman recently elected to the judiciary - negatively in that she said she could not provide a definition of a woman - but she is there.

They do not call a mother a birthing parent, or a woman a cervix haver or some such. They call out trans women in sports and in prisons when this has been effectively taboo. So I think the positive idea outweighs the negative even though I can understand what you mean.

Right, so the only woman shown in a profession in the advert (besides the clerk asking her the question) is there be shown how stupid she is.

You think this is a coincidence?

Why didn't they show any women in respected careers, other than sports?