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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Owen Jones is very cross.

139 replies

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 02/04/2022 08:03

For the many MNers who are blocked, he said:

“Given the media is taking up questions lifted from the increasingly radicalised and hateful cesspit of anti-trans activists on Twitter, we're presumably not far from broadcast interviewers asking gay men "So would you perform cunnilingus??? WOULD YOU THOUGH????"

I don’t think he’s replied yet to all the people telling him that refusing to have sex with vagina-owning transmen makes him transphobic. Come to think of it, Stonewall called us lesbians sexual racists for not being into transwomen so…

twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1509847680515723267?s=21&t=4fuQtNTleEWDjWoxwr8Cgw

Owen Jones is very cross.
OP posts:
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TheirTheyre · 02/04/2022 09:29

I would like to comment but can’t as I imagine it would, with many others on this thread, be removed because you’re not allowed to discuss ‘t r a n s’ because it make you offensive. Or offending. But most certainly ‘wrong’.

InvisibleDragon · 02/04/2022 09:37

I think he's sailing close to the wind here. Not too long before his former allies are all up in his mentions gently encouraging him to examine his cis privilege and work to amplify the voices of the oppressed. Which is of course the precursor to issuing a self criticism, denouncing yourself and committing to re-education and a lesson in cunnilingus.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 02/04/2022 09:43

There are loads of instances of TRAs saying that lesbians should able to accept dick (wasn't it Rachel McKinnon who used the words 'they learn to cope?) - it's all out there.

But no, it's the nasty GC feminists who are being so tawdry when they ask a similar question of Owen Jones.

Genitals are completely irrelevant, debasing to discuss, weird to think about, unless of course we are talking about the mighty ladydique.....

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 02/04/2022 09:45

Ah LOJ the man who slagged off women for having cleaners….who turned out to have a cleaner

He’s a hypocritical patronising bellend

InvisibleDragon · 02/04/2022 09:47

Also - lots of fairly critical commentary on a similar Facebook post:
www.facebook.com/100044175262126/posts/576565187159318/?sfnsn=scwspmo

And quite a few more from confused people asking what the whole thing is even about.

His position is weak from both sides.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 02/04/2022 09:49

I agree that he has changed in recent years, and I don't just mean because of the trans issue. He is now the resident 'leftie' on the Jeremy Vine show, his absolute crappy podcast where he 'uncovers the truth' about important issues by bringing in guests who will confirm his own bias, he rarely seems to write proper articles for newspapers anymore, it's all just click bait crap like everyone else.

HestersSamplerofCarrots · 02/04/2022 09:51

Any time Owen jones is cross is a time someone, somewhere will have asked a question that is passing sensible, or said something that is somewhat logical

If he keeps using all the uppercase letters though, his box of bricks will run out.

NotBadConsidering · 02/04/2022 09:52

The bit he’s missing is

“Would you perform cunnilingus…

…on a trans man, if TMAM, and Stonewall say that person is now a gay man if they’re attracted to men, or are you saying your attraction is same SEX, not same GENDER as Stonewall define gay and homosexual relationships?”

He knows this, and won’t answer.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/04/2022 09:54

He knows this, and won’t answer.

Exactly. He does and he knows that he can't.

MidsomerMurmurs · 02/04/2022 09:59

@Hasselhoffsheadband

I agree that he has changed in recent years, and I don't just mean because of the trans issue. He is now the resident 'leftie' on the Jeremy Vine show, his absolute crappy podcast where he 'uncovers the truth' about important issues by bringing in guests who will confirm his own bias, he rarely seems to write proper articles for newspapers anymore, it's all just click bait crap like everyone else.
A while back, someone referred to him as “Youtuber, Owen Jones” and he didn’t like it. Wish I could remember the context as it was very funny.
Cailin66 · 02/04/2022 10:00

I’m not blocked by him. So if I reply I guess he will block me. Will that mean my tweet reply is deleted or not?

WalrusSubmarine · 02/04/2022 10:02

Oh dear. Stonewall won’t be pleased.
Didn’t Stonewall issue a statement telling lesbians to examine their prejudices or similar when the bbc article came out last year? Maybe they’d like to weigh in on this.

Artichokeleaves · 02/04/2022 10:03

Oh bless his little heart.

(Yet) another clear demo of what lies at the heart of this enthusiasm for identitarianism for many woke bro men.

A vividly clear belief that he as a male person is a higher kind of being, of greater importance, whose feelings matter, whose sexuality and bodily autonomy is an outrage to question.

However female people? He's been shouting at female homosexuals for years about being stroppy about 'learning to cope' with sex with male bodies whether they want to or not, and calling them all sorts of names for interrupting a male person's gender identity by wishing their sexuality and own perceptions to be equally respected instead of obediently providing themselves as a resource for a male person's better enjoyment of living their best lives.

Wholly sex based thinking, Owen. Male supremacist thinking in fact.
Double standards as to what you as a male person are entitled to compared to what you see a female person entitled to, and oh the enjoyment of being in the more privileged position able to order and decree what the lesser beings must suffer against their will.

The enjoyment of seeing them say no and getting to scold and inform them that their feelings don't matter, their humiliation at having their bodies and sexuality questioned, their right to be homosexual, their right to have boundaries are all stupid and must be ignored.... the gleeful enjoyment of seeing them go through this? While at the same time the stamping outrage when those standards are even theoretically applied to a man?

Go talk to the relationships board Owen. They know exactly what to do with men like that.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 02/04/2022 10:04

It's quite a useful touchstone for any opinion, I find.
Would it make LOJ cross? If so, crack on.

PronounssheRa · 02/04/2022 10:14

The time when people took owen jones seriously has long past.

I also think he does get it, he just applies very different standards to people who don't agree with him, especially if they are women

VelvetChairGirl · 02/04/2022 10:14

@InvisibleDragon

Also - lots of fairly critical commentary on a similar Facebook post: www.facebook.com/100044175262126/posts/576565187159318/?sfnsn=scwspmo

And quite a few more from confused people asking what the whole thing is even about.

His position is weak from both sides.

That comments section is making my IQ reduce at the rate of knots, its like reading a load of bald men fighting over a comb while insisting they identified into having hair and are not really bald someone else just assigned them bald at birth and they never agreed to that assignment so they really do have hair.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 02/04/2022 10:26

Will that mean my tweet reply is deleted or not?

No, other people will be able to see it.

AngelinaFibres · 02/04/2022 10:26

Perhaps they think that ,because lesbians use a strap on, if they wish, that they don't have a problem with a fleshy penis that's attached to an actual man. Put that man in a dress and a bad wig and it's exactly the same as having sex with a woman. Perhaps they think we are so dim that we just wont notice. Or maybe they think they are being kind and saving lesbians the postage on a pretend penis. " Look you can have a real one for free cos I'm a woman too".

Artichokeleaves · 02/04/2022 10:28

@AngelinaFibres

Perhaps they think that ,because lesbians use a strap on, if they wish, that they don't have a problem with a fleshy penis that's attached to an actual man. Put that man in a dress and a bad wig and it's exactly the same as having sex with a woman. Perhaps they think we are so dim that we just wont notice. Or maybe they think they are being kind and saving lesbians the postage on a pretend penis. " Look you can have a real one for free cos I'm a woman too".
I have actually seen the argument that the penis of a male who identifies as a woman will 'have a different mouth feel' to that of other penises.

And therefore lesbians should be willing to give this a go.

There are not enough #nothankyous on the planet.

AngelinaFibres · 02/04/2022 10:28

@AngelinaFibres

Perhaps they think that ,because lesbians use a strap on, if they wish, that they don't have a problem with a fleshy penis that's attached to an actual man. Put that man in a dress and a bad wig and it's exactly the same as having sex with a woman. Perhaps they think we are so dim that we just wont notice. Or maybe they think they are being kind and saving lesbians the postage on a pretend penis. " Look you can have a real one for free cos I'm a woman too".
And if you don't fancy it you're obviously transphobic
ControversialOpening · 02/04/2022 10:29

The more we see and hear of Jones the more clear it becomes that the major part of his psyche is made up of absolute disgust for and loathing of women.

He really should get that seen to.

Georgeskitchen · 02/04/2022 10:36

What a bizarre universe we seem to be living in. It doesn't seem too many years ago that consenting adults, male or female, may choose a partner of either sex, and it was nobody else's business. Why all of a sudden are people being told who they may have a relationship with?

NecessaryScene · 02/04/2022 10:39

Why all of a sudden are people being told who they may have a relationship with?

Because people want to use their words. As the DEI person told Maya Forstater - if a woman only wants relationships with female people, that's fine, but she has to call herself something other than a "lesbian", because "lesbian" includes transwomen.

So you might be able to do/be something, but (a) you're a bigot and (b) you can't have a word for it, cos someone else wants it.

nauticant · 02/04/2022 10:41

Why all of a sudden are people being told who they may have a relationship with?

It's actually that all of a sudden a certain class of people are being told who they may have a relationship with. And it focuses particularly on a subset of that class of people holding a certain set of views.

How progressive is that, denying bodily autonomy to a certain class or sub-class of people?

iBlameTheEducationSystem · 02/04/2022 10:43

owen jones, non binary winery & preferred pronouns

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