To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

@PierresPotato

I've never seen anyone policing a toilet either.

You don’t keep up with Posie Parker’s antics, then?

Well they wouldn't need policing if biological males stayed the fuck out of them, would they?

Pretty brave if you ask me, if a little reckless, as no telling what the male may do to anyone objecting. That's why most women wouldn't say anything, just get out sharpish.

As always I note which threads our visitors turn up on & which they don’t….

So, if toilets are clearly signed in the future that the female toilets are only for females, then any male who has used the toilets in past will respect that decision then?

I mean, we are constantly told males who identify themselves as not male are not denying their body’s sexed material reality.

If mixed sex toilets are available, and a sign placed stating ‘female single sex toilets’, there will be no males accessing those toilets. Males will fully respect the sign? Any male, however they identify, that enters that space will be doing so with ill intent and can be removed by security or reported to the police.

All good?

Or are we going to have transitioned male posters tell us that our female single sex spaces and our need for them are not worthy of respect and they will use them regardless. Even though they are carefully signposted and mixed sex provision has also been provided.

Surely ‘policing’ from disrespectful males won’t be needed because transitioned males will respect the needs of others and simply not use those facilities.

Surely it would be transphobic for any poster to suggest those transitioned males would be so disrespectful, and to then need policing?

I mean, we are constantly told males who identify themselves as not male are not denying their body’s sexed material reality.

By the way, I mean this to reflect the many gender identities they might have. Because ‘woman’ we are told is not the only gender identity a male might identify as.

And again, as there are so many other gender identities, we should stick to toilets being for sexed bodies and not reflective of gender at all.

Otherwise, a cat gender person would surely use a litter tray or the park or garden.

Has Robin ever answered the question as to whether they think women should have the right to female sex only spaces or not? If they believe there should only be mixed sex prisons,refuges, shelters, why don't they just come out and say that the single sex exceptions in the Equality Act should be removed?

Well they wouldn't need policing if biological males stayed the fuck out of them, would they?

This is the heart of the matter, that many male people have no respect for the boundaries of women and girls. Decent male people do, but sadly there are many who aren't.

Has Robin ever answered the question as to whether they think women should have the right to female sex only spaces or not? If they believe there should only be mixed sex prisons,refuges, shelters, why don't they just come out and say that the single sex exceptions in the Equality Act should be removed?

I don’t know. But I sure would like Robin to answer whether when a mixed sex toilet provision is made and a clearly signed ‘female single sex toilet’ is available for the females, whether they think a transitioned male would disrespect the needs of those females by entering into that toilet.

If they respect it, what policing other than what we had for the past century would be needed?

It almost seems like these extremist activists cannot see how transphobic that argument they make about policing really is. It is almost like they cannot see how insisting on having to police toilets if properly signed and other provision made for mixed sex reflects on them and their community.

I'm not campaigning for anything.* I'm saying MPs shouldn't spread misinformation.*

Sure you are. And instead of looking widely at this very broad issue, you just happened to pick a single, very specific example on a very specific topic, on which to base your disingenuous saccharine-coated misogynist rant.

It takes a particular kind of man to ignore a women's sign because there is no-one policing them, so they feel entitled to go in.

These men can say that they feel like a woman, but there is no one way of feeling like a woman. It is possible to feel superior though, as shown by men who happily enter women's spaces.

I’d suggest it would take a particular type of person to answer my question with honesty. I tried to make it as clear as possible with no wiggle room (as we know we have to do all the time).

I shall wait and see who answers it and how.

I can take a punt as to who won’t answer it though.

Where did we get to? Did anyone confirm that we're removing sex and religion from the protected chatactistics?

@334bu

Has Robin ever answered the question as to whether they think women should have the right to female sex only spaces or not? If they believe there should only be mixed sex prisons,refuges, shelters, why don't they just come out and say that the single sex exceptions in the Equality Act should be removed?

I asked on another thread in response to Robin saying that they believed in some single sex spaces. I didn't get an answer as to which single sex spaces were acceptable, probably because even the most ardent MRA realises that the general public are horrified at the idea of females being locked up with males or females being unable to access rape crisis centres. Toilets are always mentioned because it's easier to say 'they just want to pee!!!' than to admit that vulnerable women locked up with male sex offenders are seen as acceptable collateral damage.

No Franca. But look. Robin came!!!!

We are all waiting for Robin to answer a policing question. Being who they are of course, and having written a law book about all this. They have awfully good insight.

So this one is a cinch!

When a mixed sex toilet provision is made and a clearly signed ‘female single sex toilet’ is available for the females, whether a transitioned male would disrespect the needs of those females by entering into that toilet.?

And if not, what would we be policing if all toilets are configured in such a way?

You don’t keep up with Posie Parker’s antics, then?

Good reminder. For anyone new to this Posie Parker aka Kellie-Jay Keen has been at the vanguard of womens rights campaigning.

She has been at the forefront of the push to reclaim our language and have clear discussions on what is happening. She makes excellent videos summarising and explaining the issues.

She was responsible for the Adult Human Female billboard that got removed for being offensive and now runs Standing For Women.

You are right elPollo. There is a reason that Kellie-Jay gets brought up by extreme trans activists. Because she points out glaring holes in the rhetoric.

You don’t keep up with Posie Parker’s antics, then?

Yep. And if she did 'police' entrry to a female space we can all be sure it was a man trying to gain entry. Something any of us would also 'police' - aka telling thenm to fuck off out of it!

Exactly as we are entitled to under the EA201o - the real version rather than the heavily mucked about version RMW and Starmer et al seem to have read!

Well this thread is a good example of a poor attempt to compare women's safety concerns with right wing politics isn't it?

Misogyny 101.

Yes it is.

It should be noted that we did not get that answer I asked for. We never do.

At least the thread stands as a great example of the twists and manipulative techniques used. And to be fair, I believe that the OP understands very well those tactics and simply believes this cause they are very heavily invested in is the most righteous at the moment. For whatever reason motivates them.

Unfortunately for them, our motivations are also very strong and personal.

Exactly as we are entitled to under the EA201o - the real version rather than the heavily mucked about version RMW and Starmer et al seem to have read!

That's very disappointing for a pair of legal figures who have a reputation (albeit for different reasons) and are high profile in this area.

“ I think you should learn what derogation means.

I suspect you meant denigration?”

@TeaKlaxon
How embarrassing for you. Have you looked up the meaning of derogation since you posted this?

@Clymene

Main level toilets are Barbican. Gender neutral, disabled, men's.

The women's toilets have been rebadged mixed sex.

It is so depressing how the backlash against (and the very recent advances of) women is taking place in plain sight. And the useful idiots are assisting in the propaganda of it being a good thing.

I started to lose the will to live at about page 18 and have only skimmed from about page 10 so sorry if this repeats something.

The real issue, for me, with all these signs is that they are provocative. On purpose? maybe. So if a sign has in nice big friendly letters: Men's toilet ->, Gender neutral toilet -> and then in smaller harder to read letters underneath "there are women't toilets somewhere else") what is the reason? Do they want to "erase women"? Do they want to annoy women? are they trying to trick people into tweeting about women's erasure so they can come back and say (in the words of pp quoting Douglas Adams) "silly! they're down there behind the beware of the leopard" sign.

When i need the toilet, i need the toilet. Now. I'm not a shy retiring violet and on occasion when the alternative is to pee my pants or worse, i have merely barged into the nearest toilet with no queue (usually men's) shouting as i come in that it's an emergency, I'm not looking but i must go now!" and i have had precisely zero complaints about that in the 50 years or so i've been doing it.

So I'm not averse to using the men's loo, and i am also not averse to a GN loo either. But some people are. It is beyond nasty to hide the signage or otherwise obfuscate (for men or women or people who need accessible facilities) where these facilities are.

I use a pub not far from where i live which has a Weatherspoons approach to the ladies - it is down some stairs, then up half a flight of stairs and along a corridor and there are only 2 cubicles. The men's is just behind the bar and has 3 cubicles and 3 urinals. I'm pretty sure that's not actually legal since my understanding is that access to toilets should give parity to the number of facilites that can be used by male sexed and female sexed people. (that could be wishful thinking). Anyway - rather helpfully, above the sign for the men's in equally large letters is a big sign with a diagram of how to get to the women's. Which is more helpful than the signage i saw in the Barbican tweet or that Belfast pub.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

As always I note which threads our visitors turn up on & which they don’t….

Is that the person who in an unguarded moment stated they used their natural, authentic male voice as it benefitted them to be seen for their true biological self in their working environment. It carried more ... something. The implication being that if they attempted to mimic the tone and timbre of a woman's natural voice (through voice coaching I suspect) in their working environment, it would diminish how others would see them.

Yet, it appears that women (the ones who aren't picking or choosing anything but recognise our natural and biological selves) can't even be allowed to opt for safety, privacy or dignity; even in vulnerable situations.

Cailleach1

Well Cailleach, if I remember correctly there was a certain attempt to obfuscate that. I remember particularly because I was one of the posters that brought up just how the male body had the benefit to produce louder and deeper voices and how that could be sustained longer and is easier to listen to. Because, I have experience delivering day long lectures and by the end of the day in a large room that is not designed around accoustics, I am squeaking.

The biological differences were attempted to be glossed over by some posters and made out to be a different meaning of 'power'. Which they also really failed to defend at the time too.