To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

You keep railing against someone having to walk up or down half a flight of stairs to get to a womens bathroom.

I'm just going to say this again, because you don't seem to get it:

Women don't mind walking to the toilets. Women can't walk to the toilets if, instead of being told where they are, they're mocked.

If the woman in question had been told the ladies toilets were on the floor above or below, she'd have gone to them.

Her complaint is that someone laughed at her when she asked where they were and didn't just tell her where they were

Tell you what.

You keep railing against someone having to walk up or down half a flight of stairs to get to a womens bathroom.

I'm not railing against someone having to walk up or down half a flight of stairs, the point as ever has flown right over your head.

And I'll keep railing against a political and economic system implemented by your transphobic allies that disproportionately leaves women facing poverty and exclusion.

I'll keep railing against an ideology that absolutely marginalises and excludes women especially some of the most vulnerable and those who are already on the margins of society, I think they matter and they count.

I know which of us will have done more for women.

I know damn well I'll have done more for women than you who dismisses and ignores a whole swathe of women because they are inconvenient to your ideology.

The sad, sad truth is that most people - including most women - don't give a shit about your weird little witch hunts about every venue that you deem to be insufficiently hostile to trans people

We don't want them to be hostile to trans people. We don't want them to be hostile to women.

[quote TeaKlaxon]Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw[/quote]
Lucy Allen's statement is correct. There are no single-sex women's toilets at the Barbican.

The Barbican's statement, posted earlier in this thread, clearly said our audiences remain welcome to use any facilities in line with the gender with which they identify. In other words, men are welcome to use any of the toilets, including those that are supposedly for women.

Therefore, there are no single-sex spaces. Putting the word "Ladies" or "Women" on a door is meaningless, if the entire audience has been invited to use it.

But you know this, OP. So why are you pretending you don't?

disproportionately leaves women facing poverty and exclusion.

We don't have a single politician who knows what one of those is. Which is where to start with this problem if you actually care about said women and said issues rather than trying to use words you think are emotionally weighted to push your own agenda.

I've read the Deptford Project's open letter: females standing up for the right of females to have accessible toilets and refuges and hospital wards and rape crisis services and HCPs and other stuff? We've been talking about the impact of this identity politics lobby on people from poverty and marginalised groups for years. What do you know about it?

And exclusion? You're only worried about male people never hearing the word 'no', and that is not exclusion. That's boundaries. The actual exclusion of female people doesn't worry you in the slightest!

@VestofAbsurdity

Hellofabore I've asked two or three times for the actual words used by the MP to back up OP's claims that the MP said the Barbican has no women's toilets and it's just tumbleweed, ironic really as OP claims the MP is lying and then cannot provide proof of the lie which suggests - wait for it - the OP is the one lying.

Always instructive as to which questions, comments and indeed threads certain OP's and posters studiously ignore, if they think by doing so they get away with it they couldn't be more wrong it stands out like a turd in swimming pool.

I know..... And I have posted the tweet on every page since page 10! But I might have missed one page.

Because it is very important with all the squirrels, and other manipulations to remind ourselves just what the tweet actually was and how it was worded!

@Linguini

I love gender ideology logic. It's hilarious to witness. Once gender ideologists are out of their bubble and come up against the real world it all comes crashing down eg the Labour party and "what is a woman" disaster right now.

So we have:

TRA: "Transwomen have been using the ladies loos since forever and no one has bat an eyelid because no one can tell.
("You can never tell"- myth number 5. Makes you wonder why the need for gender neutral spaces then rather).

TRA: dyke lesbians are always getting chucked out of the women's loos by women policing who uses the loos.
(So, no one can identify an actual man but a woman in masculine clothes is thought to be a man).

And.... Gender neutral loos are safe for all, but men are so unsafe it is too dangerous for a man who identifies as a woman to use the men's space, they'd be instantly attacked. Men in the gender neutral space magically lose all their danger.

It all makes PERFECT SENSE.

totally logical. Especially the last comment.

Oh... and we are 'railing' now.

Just keeping a list of the monstering and demonising that OP continues to do on this thread.

Rail away witchy non-feminists, who are hunting squirrels, and spectral readers!! Crank it up OP! Let's get this 'echo chamber' really lively.

Maybe someone will really get pissed off and report OP for their posts. Because very many of them fall foul of the guidelines now that the thread is in the naughty witchy, non-feminist corner.

But probably not because this live demonstration has been going just as they all do. Sadly. It is all very predictable.

You keep railing against someone having to walk up or down half a flight of stairs to get to a womens bathroom.

How do women know where these mysterious toilets are when they are laughed at when they ask? Also, women get many more urinal issues, because they are WOMEN and as such, suffer from complaints due to periods, childbirth, endometriosis yada yada yada because they are WOMEN.

And I'll keep railing against a political and economic system implemented by your transphobic allies that disproportionately leaves women facing poverty and exclusion.

Women being excluded from toilets is a direct result of your system. That's the fucking point. But in upside down world...

Well, many of us know from the Forstater case that there is also no way for women to actually ask for single sex female toilets without it being considered offensive.

That is where we are at.

And that is very well illustrated in the derogatory, snide and dehumanising language that this OP chooses to use.

Now, of course, readers need to also consider the age old question. Just who benefits exactly from a woman being laughed at and not given the directions that she asked for to get to the single sex female toilets?

That is also quite enlightening if we get on to disseminating that particular question.

There's something pretty ableist about the way Tea is talking about stairs. Plenty of women with sufficient mobility issues that they want to avoid stairs, but who would prefer to leave the accessible toilet free for men and women who really need an accessible toilet. E.g. those who need more physical space in the toilet (wheelchair-users, people with carers) or a private sink (people who have stoma bags), or people who need the support bars to get on and off the toilet.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

There's something pretty ableist about the way Tea is talking about stairs. Plenty of women with sufficient mobility issues that they want to avoid stairs, but who would prefer to leave the accessible toilet free for men and women who really need an accessible toilet. E.g. those who need more physical space in the toilet (wheelchair-users, people with carers) or a private sink (people who have stoma bags), or people who need the support bars to get on and off the toilet.

Yes, but it's par for the course nothing and no-one else matters.

Well 20% of the population have a disability.

But I think the op is thinking of disability in a very stereotypical way (IE. Not that many people effected, in a wheelchair)

Whereas disability is much more diverse than that. Someone for example can have the motor skills to use stairs, but not efficienctly, so it would not be suitable for them to use a twenty minute interval to go up several flights of stairs.

Then obviously there's mental disabilities that make a person more vulnerable. These people need safe spaces not spaces opening up.

There are so many practical reasons why same sex provision is important that those who haven't had to care for or live with a disability don't consider.

It's getting to the point that whenever I see a trans pride flag, I assume the bearer has antediluvian ideas about disability inclusion.

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Well 20% of the population have a disability.

But I think the op is thinking of disability in a very stereotypical way (IE. Not that many people effected, in a wheelchair)

Whereas disability is much more diverse than that. Someone for example can have the motor skills to use stairs, but not efficienctly, so it would not be suitable for them to use a twenty minute interval to go up several flights of stairs.

Then obviously there's mental disabilities that make a person more vulnerable. These people need safe spaces not spaces opening up.

There are so many practical reasons why same sex provision is important that those who haven't had to care for or live with a disability don't consider.

Ummm - the Barbican has lifts.

No one is asking people with mobility issues to walk up several flights of stairs.

FFS - looks like there's no straw man you guys won't cling on to.

Accessibility extends beyond saying, "we have a lift" or "we have a ramp".

Well as someone who has to navigate the world of disability I know more about it than you.

How many people do you think a lift can cater for in an interval?

Barbican has lifts.

No one is asking people with mobility issues to walk up several flights of stairs.

As somebody who periodically needs to use a walking aid, I invite you to map the lifts and the truly accessible lavatories and their hours of availability.

Yours, a regular visitor to the Barbican who frequently has to wrangle access routes to various venues and facilities there.

www.barbican.org.uk/your-visit/accessibility/accessible-facilities#toilets

Pony

I actually had a bet with myself that Tea would reply to your thoughtful post about what conditions fell under 'disability' with "but there are lifts!"

I'm sorry to have been proven right. But it fits with the typical antediluvian attitudes. It's like Tea is stuck in the 90s when any step-free access was a big step forward.

Always we end up with these posters proving they have absolutely no bloody idea what life looks like through anyone's eyes but their own.

Anyone want to talk about the rate of bladder issues both age and birth injury related in the boring old female type women? And how that relates to a need to get to loos easily and accessibly in a way that no male person is ever going to encounter, not living within that anatomy?

Barbican has lifts

But you have to find them without asking for assistance, or you'll be laughed at, then once you've got to a floor that (hopefully) has the appropriate toilets, you need to find them yourself too, or you'll be laughed at. Then wait in a queue because there are less ladies toilets than a building of that size needs - because they had the appropriate number then gave half of them to the men.

And hope you don't piss yourself in the meantime.

Anyone want to talk about the rate of bladder issues both age and birth injury related in the boring old female type women? And how that relates to a need to get to loos easily and accessibly in a way that no male person is ever going to encounter, not living within that anatomy?

yep. those were mentioned and ignored.

It is almost like there is little comprehension of just what a female lived experience is after pregnancies, extensive gynaecological procedures, menopause and just age.

In fact, I daresay that the number of transitioned females who complain of bladder issues are also completely ignored too. Probably because there is so much pressure put on transitioned females to keep their issues to themselves, lest people realise that phalloplasty is a very flawed surgery and does seem to have a very high change of failure at each stage.

The Barbican is really poor on this front - so confusing to navigate. I went down three levels to the loos at a concert last month thinking I was following signs to the nearest, queued for 10+ mins then couldn't find a lift to get back up - only just got back in time for the second half. It's rubbish compared to other places I go to & needs to up its game.

And I forgot, the effects of cross sex hormones also on the female bladder.

As we are told from detransitioners.

Why is it always a straw man when women point out the fucking obvious?