To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

Who is Graham and is he (seems to be a man) also called hysterical by people? My point is that it always are women who are called hysterical, never men.

As for gender neutral toilets with urinals, that is disgusting. I don’t want to see random people’s penises when I go to the toilet. How many women want that?

@LittleMyTopKnot

Who is Graham and is he (seems to be a man) also called hysterical by people? My point is that it always are women who are called hysterical, never men.

As for gender neutral toilets with urinals, that is disgusting. I don’t want to see random people’s penises when I go to the toilet. How many women want that?

Graham Linehan is one of the leading voices in transphobia and yes, he is called hysterical by people. I literally just expressed the view that he's hysterical.

And no one if forcing you to use a toilet that includes a urinal. The one I've used was pretty clean, and the urinal was located in such a way that you'd need to go out of your way to see penises. As I say, it wouldn't be my first choice, but if you don't want to use it no one is forcing you...

@MyLittlePhonyPony

Are you a woman?

You didn't answer the question op.

I'm just interested to know if you are a woman who tramples men's boundaries by crusing the urinals.

Or you're a man who enjoys eroding women's spaces.

Yes I am a woman.

No I don't 'cruise' urinals.

Okay, I don't really want to hear any more about your urinal usage, OP. I'm out.

Hang on. Hold the phones.

The "gender-neutral" toilets at the Barbican have urinals?

They're not simply a room of separate cubicles with Gender Neutral on the signage outside? I had no idea.

We need a diagram and to tell everyone we know.

@SamphiretheStickerist

I didn't see the men's loos that had been repurposed - I am not a man and didn't pop in and have a look. I didn't crawl over every inch of the centre, I was there for an exhibition! - and I needed 2 wees, because I stayed so long.

I said that the loos I was looking for had been repurposed., meaning I had a bit of an additional wait/walk until I found some women's loos.

You seem to be taking general comments, specific comments, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all into one big ball of confusion!

"A bit of a wait/walk" isn't the same as not being able to find them.

You expected to find them on one floor. The toilets there (the mens and the womens) had been turned into gender neutral. The nearest womens will most likely have been on the Ground floor or the First floor - the toilets you're talking about are located sort of half way between the ground and first floors, and are the only rooms on that 'half floor'.

So a bit of a walk up or down half a flight of stairs is not quite what other posters have been claiming of not being able to find womens bathrooms.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Hang on. Hold the phones.

The "gender-neutral" toilets at the Barbican have urinals?

They're not simply a room of separate cubicles with Gender Neutral on the signage outside? I had no idea.

We need a diagram and to tell everyone we know.

LOL.

Make some more things up, why don't you.

According to @Franca123 the old mens toilets AND womens toilets on one particular floor have been repurposed into gender neutral toilets.

I presume, but don't know, that the one that used to be the gents, has retained its urinals. The one that used to be the women's I assume does not have a urinal.

I think you'll find most men appreciate you staying out of their urinals for reasons of privacy and dignity.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

No. I wasn't. I don't work at the Barbican.

And yet you seem to know so much about the lay-out, and whenever someone on here describes something that doesn't chime with your memories, you never feel a second's doubt in your own testimony. So if you don't work there, how many hours a week do you spend there?

That was the clear implication - by saying there were mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, the reader is clearly expected to deduce that there were no women's bathrooms.

Yes, if a member of staff laughed in a customer's face for asking where the women's toilets are, the customer would conclude that there were no separate facilities for women. (I very much doubt a bathroom is available for customers!)

The fault does not lie with the customer, it lies with the usher.

I don't need to spend several hours a week there. I've been to the Barbican a fair bit over the years. I know its layout reasonably well. Why would you think someone needs to work in a venue to be familiar with its layout.

Well I shall carry out my thorough inspection of both the women's and gender neutral facilities next week. I'd be interested to see if any of the GN ones contain urinals because it's my experience that it's only cubicles which are repurposed ie women's toilets.

As being obsessed with what is in some people's pants is what we're often accused of, I'd imagine urinals, which require a penis, are not top of the GN agenda seeing as we're not supposed to know which are female and which are male.

@MyLittlePhonyPony

I think you'll find most men appreciate you staying out of their urinals for reasons of privacy and dignity.

Then they should not be using gender neutral toilets.

Also, I'm not sure why you think I should stay out of a urinal since I never went into a urinal. That would be pretty unpleasant. I said I had once or twice used a gender neutral bathroom with a urinal.

Is this now just what Gender Critical people do? Make claims that are blatantly untrue? And if that is the case, doesn't that prove that their case against trans people is pretty hollow

And there we have it. Politicians lie, water is wet.

But this isn't to do with politicians is it? This is about sticking it to gender critical women, calling them liars and transphobes, so males and their dicks can destroy all single sex spaces. If you want to betray your sex (I'm assuming when you say you're a woman you mean female here) that's your lookout. No need to dress it up as concern about a politician - if you don't want single sex spaces to exist anymore, just say that.

To be fair most women won't go in a gender neutral men's toilet for obvious reasons. They probably weren't expect any women to actually to up and use them.

Still hopefully you have made a few men uncomfortable and highlighted an issue for them.

So thank you for your community service.

Jesus wept!

Well, smite with the MN wally stick!

"The toilets I am talking about...." I went alone. You were not with me. How do you know this? Are you spying on me? From your personal Tardis?

My experience, as a first timer at the Barbican, was made a tad more 'exciting' than it needed to be when I needed a wee. As a woman of a certain age, with slightly weak pelvic floor and half a bottle of pop inside her, I was not amused when, having seen toilet signs, I realised my error and had to look again!

It isn't difficult to understand that the repurposing casues real isues and that organisations really do need to think again about provision and stop reducing the number of loos women can use without having to have an internal debate about the relative dangers of a weak bladder and a strong man.

I think the best way forward is for Clymene to come back and update us on the number and locations on women’s toilets at the Barbican. I think this is an important issue which should be settled.

I also think we should try to take deep breaths when we think someone on Twitter may be lying. It happens a lot sadly.

Hysterical seems to be a sexist word (according to Domesticated), so we shouldn’t use that.

As for that Graham dude (sounds unpleasant) and sexual orientations, what do they have to do with toilets?

With regards to urinals in toilets aimed for use of women, that is completely bonkers. The number of women wanting to use a toilet with a urinal (however to the side) must be tiny. And it seems like I would have to wash bloody hands (periods, remember) next to men who are washing their hands after having a piss. No thank you. The world has gone insane.

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking

Is this now just what Gender Critical people do? Make claims that are blatantly untrue? And if that is the case, doesn't that prove that their case against trans people is pretty hollow

And there we have it. Politicians lie, water is wet.

But this isn't to do with politicians is it? This is about sticking it to gender critical women, calling them liars and transphobes, so males and their dicks can destroy all single sex spaces. If you want to betray your sex (I'm assuming when you say you're a woman you mean female here) that's your lookout. No need to dress it up as concern about a politician - if you don't want single sex spaces to exist anymore, just say that.

I've no problem in saying I think spaces should be inclusive of trans people and their identities, with only limited exceptions.

That is a very good position to have imo and not one that I have any interest in hiding or shying away from. When people talk about me 'betraying my sex' it just convinces me even more that I'm on the right side.

@TeaKlaxon
I was in the Barbican a few weeks ago and asked the exact same question to an usher sitting nearby and got a very confused/ vague response. A woman then came out of the gender neutral toilets and said that the women's were the other way. When I looked, the toilets were men's. I used the gender neutral toilets but I was outraged to see that the women's toilets have been taken over and give women less choice.

Why are women the first to have to give up spaces? Why not make the men's the gender neutral toilets. I left wondering if there were any women's toilets, so I won't be the only one. And women have every right to speak up about this discrimination and erasure.

TeaKlaxon

So where was this "gender neutral" toilet with a urinal in situ? So I can make sure I don't go there.

Then they should not be using gender neutral toilets.

Does the Barbican have any men's only toilets left? Are you implying that men using the toilets with the changed signage are consenting to women seeing them use the toilet?
If so, you're nearly on the way to realising why women don't want mixed-sex toilets. We don't want people claiming we consented to see penises just because we needed the toilet. It's coercion of women.

Also, I'm not sure why you think I should stay out of a urinal since I never went into a urinal. That would be pretty unpleasant. I said I had once or twice used a gender neutral bathroom with a urinal.

There was a bath in there too?

That Graham dude has been speaking out for womens rights for a while now.

He has lost his wife to the stress of the TRA pushback.

Lost his main source of income due to the TRA pushback

And just this week a musical based on his TV series Father Ted has been shelved - because of TRA pushback

And we are supposed to believe that TRAs have no influence over anything, are being ignored, having their existence denied! Pshaw!

@SamphiretheStickerist

Jesus wept!

Well, smite with the MN wally stick!

"The toilets I am talking about...." I went alone. You were not with me. How do you know this? Are you spying on me? From your personal Tardis?

My experience, as a first timer at the Barbican, was made a tad more 'exciting' than it needed to be when I needed a wee. As a woman of a certain age, with slightly weak pelvic floor and half a bottle of pop inside her, I was not amused when, having seen toilet signs, I realised my error and had to look again!

It isn't difficult to understand that the repurposing casues real isues and that organisations really do need to think again about provision and stop reducing the number of loos women can use without having to have an internal debate about the relative dangers of a weak bladder and a strong man.

Oh jeez, how could I possibly have known which toilets we're discussing?

Oh wait - several people, including yourself, have told us which toilets have become gender neutral. So I know perfectly well which toilets you are referring to.

I've no problem in saying I think spaces should be inclusive of trans people and their identities

??? do they walk in tandem!??

You seem incredibly keen on men and women sharing toilets. Maybe get a hobby.

Oh wait - several people, including yourself, have told us which toilets have become gender neutral. So I know perfectly well which toilets you are referring to

Me? I didn't. I have repeatedly said I don't know about all of them as I didn't walk the whole place over. I've been once. And nobody has provided a map... so maybe back off a little bit and hear the message instead of shooting the multiple messengers.

Indeed.

YABU to wonder why an MP is lying about anything.

They all do it. She's just slightly less adept than others at covering it up again.