It is time to end the hysteria in transgender debate - Times Sport Section

[Igneococcus]

Matt Dickinson is an idiot, sorry, I can't phrase it any more eloquently:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2366828e-ab99-11ec-b5dd-c16e85f55725?shareToken=b220fdbbefe00419d8f7f88a8f55b890

You know what would be really inclusive?

Celebrating a trans woman winning the men’s race showing that it doesn’t matter how you present yourself out of the pool, you can still win at men’s sports.

But that won’t be Lia because Lia can’t swim well enough to beat the 261 men that are better.

'It felt important to talk to York before writing about Thomas, and the wider discussion of trans athletes, because how many of us know a trans person? How much do we engage before forming an opinion? How much do we allow a photograph, and single result, like that to shape our views?'

This is more of the 'case-by-case' argument. That doesn't work. All TW are - by definition - male, and so this is an argument that can be had in conceptual terms. What does Dickinson think I would learn by meeting LT that is relevant to the discussion?

'The NHS has about 160 kids who have access to puberty-blockers. Out of those 160 kids how many do you think are going to become elite athletes? It could be hundreds of years.'

This is argued as if the 'hysterical fear' surrounds the idea of a tsunami of TW athletes dominating female sport, and as if that would be the point where we were 'permitted' to be concerned.

Every example of this happening is unfair. Every single one. A college swimmer who should have qualified for a final and didn't. A female lifter who didn't get to the Olympics. A school sprinter who was left off the podium. A community athletics team long jumper whose time is an eighth of an inch slower than that of a 'TW' athlete.

Sport is meant to be fair. That's the end of it.

'“Talk to anyone who has reduced testosterone, never mind to the levels the IOC have set. They are not training three, four hours a day for six, seven days a week. They are knackered, they are depressed. If anyone wants to volunteer for that then go ahead.'

So does this mean a knackered, depressed male athlete with reduced testosterone was able to beat every female athlete in the physical prime of their lives, without training?

Comments on for a change! So many wonderful comments, who is the author trying to fool, it doesn't seem to be working.

David Walsh who also writes for the Times is a big buddy of York and has written similar puff pieces in the past.

Shocking article but good comments, great to see the comment section opened again ( mine is pending, so we will see if it gets on..)

The NHS has about 160 kids who have access to puberty-blockers. Out of those 160 kids how many do you think are going to become elite athletes?

What on earth has the number of UK kids on puberty suppressants got to do with American male athletes transitioning post male puberty?

If you think he’s an idiot please don’t link to his article, you’re sending loads of clicks his way which makes him look good to his boss and encourages them to write more crap

Well I suppose at least Matt Dickinson thinks a discussion and investigation need to be had, York otoh is a fucking disgrace. All those years of being taciturn as Millar and when the voice finally is found turns out just the same old shit as any other MRA/TRA is spouted. All the usual tropes - it’s only ‘college’ swimming, Thomas is not winning everything (fuck the women who lose out on a place just by Thomas being there though eh), NATWALT, it didn’t happen blah blah blah.

The article misses the point, Thomas, Hubbard etc have stolen a place from a woman. It is irrelevant whether they come first or 50th, they are taking a place from someone who deserves it.

It was only in 2012 all Olympic teams had both male and female competitors.

It wasn't until the 1980s women could race in an Olympic marathon.

May many top female athletes stopped competing because there was no more sponsorship.

Women have had to fight to actually take part, trans athletes competing as the opposite sex are cheats.

It's strange that trans men compete as women and no one bats an eyelid.

I hope that even the uneducated reading this will realize it’s not remotely based in fact, but is an entirely male view from someone who hasn’t given a single moment’s thought to how women feel.

Yet more male blahblahblah to justifying other men's unjustifiable demands.

It so simple even a child can understand.

No men in women sport. Ever.

Hyperbole bingo!
What a load of tosh and nonsense.
I just love it (not) when men try and shut women down by calling us hysterical, liars, and downright silly. Listen to the men ladies and pipe down.
If he thinks comments are hysterical now, just wait - this is the tip of the iceberg. People are only just waking up to this matter.

So disappointed in this article. I wonder if it got through because (a) it’s sport and (b) to counter all the stick The Times gets for allowing Janice Turner to say it how it really is so often. And they also have a broadly GC-supportive column today by Gerard Baker. On balance, it has been one of the better papers.

However, LT and sport were acting as a wonderful wake up call, particularly for men. MD’s puff piece for York might have undermined that and it sure does tell us pesky whistleblowing women to just STFU because nobody’s going to believe us anyway.

Do they only show comments to subscribers? I haven't been able to see any comments for months

“But it’s all ‘what ifs’,” York counters. “What about what has actually happened? Where are the trans athletes dominating? The NHS has about 160 kids who have access to puberty-blockers. Out of those 160 kids how many do you think are going to become elite athletes? It could be hundreds of years.”

Because a small number of children are given puberty blockers and do not undergo an undisrupted male puberty, then transwomen who have undergone a normal male publerty should be permitted to compete in women's sports at an elite level. That's the level of argument on display in the article. It's also a clear example of the "transkids"-as-human-shields approach.

It just doesn't matter how many children are being given puberty blockers (that is a different issue and one even more important than sports). We know who LT displaced. We know that person is a female athlete and we know this category is not an example of fair competition if it is for all females + average males.

It's also a clear example of the "transkids"-as-human-shields approach.

Yes I noticed that.

and the powerful message it sends

The powerful message it sent was that Thomas is a disgraceful cheat who shouldn't be there.

Comments on for a change! So many wonderful comments, who is the author trying to fool, it doesn't seem to be working.

Either that's because it's in sport where the silencing doesn't normally happen or they've realised that if they put up an article like this and silence their subscribers, they're going to get cancellations. I wouldn't be surprised to see a major cull of comments or for them to go completely.

Hysteria lol, same old, man lecturing women…..

If you think he’s an idiot please don’t link to his article, you’re sending loads of clicks his way which makes him look good to his boss and encourages them to write more crap

Why on earth wouldn't we want him to write more crap? This is great.

@NecessaryScene

Lol.

We've got to get out entertainment somewhere. As satire is dead this is what we've got!

Hysteria 🙃 he might as well go the final step and shhhh the women and get them to make him a sandwich (though would be a brave penis-haver to eat it😉)

What we’re seeing is the start of a campaign to soften up the public before the Commonwealth Games. This is the 3 article in recent weeks featuring cycling’s trans athletes in sympathetic, woe is me, aren’t women meanies tones.

I’m bracing myself for more in the coming weeks.