It is time to end the hysteria in transgender debate - Times Sport Section

[Igneococcus]

Matt Dickinson is an idiot, sorry, I can't phrase it any more eloquently:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2366828e-ab99-11ec-b5dd-c16e85f55725?shareToken=b220fdbbefe00419d8f7f88a8f55b890

Interesting that York and Thomas were both apparently prepared to give up their sport to transition. That's exactly what should have happened then.

@Clymene

“A piece about Lia Thomas walking around with genitalia out,” York says. “You just know it didn’t happen. This issue of ‘where are they going to get changed?’ Just because you are trans does not mean you are going to sexually assault somebody.”

Ah the old 'women are lying' trope.

Someone should send York this photo. As a former pro cyclist, I'd like York to explain why a massively out of shape male can beat a super fit woman.

Timmy Mallett, is that you?

Picture might help 🙄

Comments are still open, ~444 at the moment, still new comments coming in fast. He is getting slated.

Pippa is an interesting choice when writing an article about fairness in sport as they have admitted to testosterone doping when competing in men's cycling events.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/philippa-york-interview-doping-it-was-cheating-and-all-of-us-were-doing-it-8jbmqp92m

Sorry I don't have a share token.

and the powerful message it sends..

and the message is that the men who are in charge of women’s sports will not defend it and should be removed.

Here is a sharetoken for the Philippa York doping article:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3bbe8dd0-f51b-11ea-bba7-1287cd8be14a?shareToken=91f58bcfdb79d7103fb0eade0f919279

@TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate

and the powerful message it sends..

and the message is that the men who are in charge of women’s sports will not defend it and should be removed.

It also communicates that high-level women's sports have been tolerated and that too many men are willing to grasp any rationale for destroying them and then discarding them as unnecessary.

It will be open class only and if that means it's fully able men of around 25 years of age (plus/minus 5 years) then that would be fine.

No comments visible on that original article link. I’m not a Times subscriber though.

@PaterPower

No comments visible on that original article link. I’m not a Times subscriber though.

They seem to have stopped allowing comments to appear on share tokens, only for subscribers. Not sure why? Maybe it cuts down on vexatious complaints to OpenWeb who host the comment sections?

Yes, I can't see the Comments either and am not a subscriber.

The editor of The Times - who he? - should apologise for that headline which resurrects an old misogynistic slur directed at women. Note it is not shown as a quotation but as a plain statement. That alone screams of bigotry.

Is The Times in the habit of digging up ancient prejudice about groups and aligning itself with them in such a blatant manner?

I'm upset that the Times allowed that title. It's so clearly goading and misogynistic. I'm going to complain about it. Dismissing my opinions as a symptom of my womb is beyond offensive.

The author is being roasted on Twitter..Everyone is answering the question in his article by simply saying , yes it is all about fairness.

mobile.twitter.com/DickinsonTimes/status/1507060105904283652?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Matt Dickinson is for example ,a twat.

we must go and lock up our hysterical uteruses for pointing out that biologically born men competing against biologically born women is unfair !

Man tells women to stop minding about their places in sports being taken up by other men.

I mean, it's all lost on him, isn't it?

If LT had competed in a pair of Speedos sporting a short back and sides and a moustache, it would have considered unfair.

Him wearing an all in one swimming costume, using makeup and painting his toenails doesn’t make it any less unfair.

All of these articles always deliberately mislead, Thomas has just reduced their testosterone levels, yet they are compared to York (who I assume uses oestrogen and has had surgery).

Thomas is likened to those teenagers at clinics who are likely to also be on cross-sex hormones.

No one is willing to state what they define trans as.

A man who receives treatment for prostate cancer becomes eligible to compete in women's sports. That is the current rule, because it is based on testosterone levels.
When full blown sex change surgery was required to compete, we didn't have the situation that we have today, because these athletes weren't willing to go that far to compete in the women's events.

The comments under the article are a thing of beauty. Ziegler's being comprehensively called out for his misogyny over his language, one sidedness (no women interviewed) with almost 100% of commentators clearly identifying that it's unfair.

Thomas is doing far more than Thomas realises to demonstrate the unfairness of all this to women.

@BootsAndRoots

All of these articles always deliberately mislead, Thomas has just reduced their testosterone levels, yet they are compared to York (who I assume uses oestrogen and has had surgery).

Thomas is likened to those teenagers at clinics who are likely to also be on cross-sex hormones.

No one is willing to state what they define trans as.

A man who receives treatment for prostate cancer becomes eligible to compete in women's sports. That is the current rule, because it is based on testosterone levels.
When full blown sex change surgery was required to compete, we didn't have the situation that we have today, because these athletes weren't willing to go that far to compete in the women's events.

That is a good point, and I had not thought about it. So the argument that recent history shows there won't be very many trans women in elite sports (so nothing to worry about) is based on a situation when the definition of an eligible trans competitor was different, so there were very few such individuals.

How many positive stories about transwomen do we hear? says the article.

I agree! We should hear lots of nice stories about otters being rescued from trees or cats protecting elderly ladies from burglars. Why are all the news stories we hear about things like war in Ukraine, cost of living crises, and teenage black girls being strip searched in classrooms?

I think we should have positive news stories about transwomen raising money for period poverty. Why is the news so biased?

One of the things I noted is that the author of this shoddy piece is 'Senior Sports Writer'. Not a novice, then or a columnist employed for a weekly personal opinion, which might account for bias, hyperbole or ignorance of the topic.

Another was the strange concoction 'cisgender female athletes...' That's absurd either with the offensive prefix or without it. You wouldn't write 'gender female athletes...' or 'sex female athletes...' because it would be daft and tautologous. What he contrived not to write is 'female athletes....' Can't think why.

There's no way to stop people being stupid. But if he interviewed Sharron Davies or Mara Yamauchi he'd have less excuse for his ignorance and writing up rubbish spouted by his interviewee such as negligible numbers and effect on women.

Mara Yamauchi would enlighten him as to the reality:

'Record breaking is one part of the destruction of women’s sport. Some female WRs in athletics are ‘fossilised’ bc of doping - no female can now get near them. The exciting goal of breaking a WR removed for all females. Same now w males taking female records. t.co/spKMzL0RGV '

And more in a youtube interview, posted by Datun:

"Here is Mara Yamauchi, the number two marathon champion, talking to Andrew Doyle. She is now retired and can speak out. She has said that every single athlete she has spoken to, and they are legion, think it's disgusting but are too scared to speak out.
All of them have been told to shut the fuck up, lest they lose their careers.
youtu.be/waXeN_GTrK4"

That interview summarised by FemaleAndLearning:

"... We just get told it's only one transwoman it won't hurt.
It went something like this. Lia pushed out a women who could've been on that team. Lia won 3 races so that's 3 women who missed out on gold, the bronze winners should have been silver so that's another three. The women who came 4th should have got bronze so that's another three. Then the 3 women who should have come 8th missed out on the A races so would have gone to the B races. We are already into double figures. It would be good to see the race schedule and see exactly how many women Lia trampled over...."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4493512-A-report-from-a-mother-of-a-swimmer-USA