It is time to end the hysteria in transgender debate - Times Sport Section

[Igneococcus]

Matt Dickinson is an idiot, sorry, I can't phrase it any more eloquently:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2366828e-ab99-11ec-b5dd-c16e85f55725?shareToken=b220fdbbefe00419d8f7f88a8f55b890

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/university-of-arizona-swimmers-write-letter-to-ncaa-on-lia-thomas/

More college swimmers complaining of the unfairness.

How do we complain formally about this article?

I do not want my daughter's growing up in a world where men can publish an article about women's hysteria, and calling victims alleging flashing liars.

The women in sport debate is upsetting and frustrating enough but the overtones of vile misogyny from a national newspaper and their senior sports writer is just too much. How dare they?

[email protected]

I complained. It's basically saying my opinion is invalid because it's driven by my womb. If that's not sexist I don't know what is.

It's really, really got to me this morning.

Quite apart from the drivel that makes up the piece with it's great Lepas, and non logical conclusions. Being allowed to call people liars with impunity and wave away any discussion as hysterical is beyond the pale.

Not even a chat with Ross Tucker of Science of Sport ?

He did chime in on Twitter about this piece.

Words like “fear”, “prejudice”, “hysteria” and “hateful” imply that concerns about Women’s sport are irrational and illegitimate. You can only make this allegation if you think it’s unreasonable for women to want a space in sport that excludes male advantage. So, is it?

Given a) the significant effect of male biology on performance, and b) the performance differences between M & F, it’s clearly not unreasonable for women to want this. In fact, it’s rational and necessary. For them to then to told to accept it for a range of reasons including…

…”they’re not dominating”, “there are so few” & that it “only” happened in a college event, well…I’d call that pretty insulting. Who gets to decide on the meaning of sport for women? Males, apparently. While calling legitimate concerns hysterical & prejudiced. Only goes one way

I’d also add that it’s not too surprising that York dismisses concerns about Women’s sport as “fear & prejudice”, though it is super frustrating to see the “they’re not dominating” argument to do so. Winning & dominance are irrelevant - they’re not the marker of unfairness

Equally wrong is to say that because something is not frequent enough (for York, that is), it doesn’t warrant regulation. Perhaps she can let us know how many cases, and at what level, would represent a legitimate need to act, so that we can let women know to relax until then?

(Man, I remember when he used to be really mild-mannered about this, but he's had it up to here with the misogynistic-twattery-fuelled performative scientific illiteracy).

I don't know if you can see the comments CarbonelCat but he gets ripped to pieces in them.

No comments visible for me unfortunately

I think the word was deliberately chosen. He’ll know it domes from the word Greek for uterus.

There are 820 comments at the moment and these are the three most recommended ones:
"Men shouldn't compete in women's events. This is not a complicated issue . You are talking rubbish and you know it."

"Laurel Hubbard going to the Olympics meant an indigenous woman did not. One who all her adult female life had trained and worked hard to achieve just that. It matters."

"So you got an interview with Pippa Yorke, Matt. This isn’t about Pippa Yorke. It’s about women’s sport, and who is eligible for that protected category. Yet you didn’t speak to a single woman. It doesn’t matter how many transwomen there are or whether they are winning. They have been through male puberty and have lifelong advantages as a result so they don’t belong in female events. No one is saying a transwoman in a changing room will assault someone. They’re saying that women lose the privacy of a single-sex facility when a male is present. As you’d know if you’d asked any women."

I bloody love Ross Tucker. You’re so tight Necessary - he used to be very much of the “I’m sure once ppl see the science they will be reasonable” and how long he spent patiently going over and over the science

And now he’s so done with being patient 😆

Thanks @Igneococcus for sharing those. Heartening.

I feel so angry and depressed by this.

@NecessaryScene

Not even a chat with Ross Tucker of Science of Sport ?

He did chime in on Twitter about this piece.

Words like “fear”, “prejudice”, “hysteria” and “hateful” imply that concerns about Women’s sport are irrational and illegitimate. You can only make this allegation if you think it’s unreasonable for women to want a space in sport that excludes male advantage. So, is it?

Given a) the significant effect of male biology on performance, and b) the performance differences between M & F, it’s clearly not unreasonable for women to want this. In fact, it’s rational and necessary. For them to then to told to accept it for a range of reasons including…

…”they’re not dominating”, “there are so few” & that it “only” happened in a college event, well…I’d call that pretty insulting. Who gets to decide on the meaning of sport for women? Males, apparently. While calling legitimate concerns hysterical & prejudiced. Only goes one way

I’d also add that it’s not too surprising that York dismisses concerns about Women’s sport as “fear & prejudice”, though it is super frustrating to see the “they’re not dominating” argument to do so. Winning & dominance are irrelevant - they’re not the marker of unfairness

Equally wrong is to say that because something is not frequent enough (for York, that is), it doesn’t warrant regulation. Perhaps she can let us know how many cases, and at what level, would represent a legitimate need to act, so that we can let women know to relax until then?

(Man, I remember when he used to be really mild-mannered about this, but he's had it up to here with the misogynistic-twattery-fuelled performative scientific illiteracy).

I’ve been listening to his Thursday Science of Sport podcast. He is absolutely fed up of the whole issue. He also comments on getting it in the neck from the women’s rights side about using female pronouns for Lia, and another swimming writer getting the same. He is squarely on the side of fairness but also massively cheesed off about how this is overshadowing women’s other sporting accomplishments.

In the past I would have gone along with calling Lia by her chosen name and not referencing her previous one, using female pronouns and stating she was a woman.

Problem with this all is we now see where accommodation of the earlier demands leads.

I'm becoming much less helpful and kind than I was originally prepared to be. This stuff is negative all round.

@CarbonelCat

In the past I would have gone along with calling Lia by her chosen name and not referencing her previous one, using female pronouns and stating she was a woman.

Problem with this all is we now see where accommodation of the earlier demands leads.

I'm becoming much less helpful and kind than I was originally prepared to be. This stuff is negative all round.

The perniciousness of #BeKind has hampered many a woman from anticipating the unintended consequences and impact of all this.

The Denton playbook was designed to ensure that the public didn't understand what was happening out of sight and to bring them onboard through forced teaming.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/dentons-campaigns-kids-switch-gender-without-parental-approval

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-dentons-document?s=r

The good thing about articles like this being published is that it's drivel - emotive claptrap.
It's why the conference for trainee psychiatrists about the Cass Review was cancelled - Mermaids etc said they didn't feel safe.
They don't feel safe because this whole thing is built on a pile of falsehoods. There are no fair, ethical or scientific reasons to hand over women's sport to born males - hence this hyperbolic article lacking in any facts or substance. Just as there are no ethical, safe or compassionate reasons to give vulnerable children puberty blockers or surgery to resolve their sadness / confusion.

If transactivists can't get what they want via emotive guilt tripping, then it's done by threats, bullying and ensuring that they never have to face truth, facts and the rights of other groups.

If transactivists can't get what they want via emotive guilt tripping, then it's done by threats, bullying and ensuring that they never have to face truth, facts and the rights of other groups.

What politicians and thought leaders need to do is ignore the false propaganda guilt tripping and have zero tolerance for the threats and bullying, and ensure everyone and their needs are considered.

This is just such obvious rubbish..as all the Twitter comments say, they're attempting to defend the indefensible.

Another man commenting today in the Sunday Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f10c0c6c-ad07-11ec-8378-1c1dfedc8742?shareToken=4d1b703b9373893a25fb3fc6dc5cc6a5

Well that’s a pretty useless article - just rehashes what’s already been said with no attempt to dig underneath it. The invoking of Michael phelps argument being a classic of its genre

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Well that’s a pretty useless article - just rehashes what’s already been said with no attempt to dig underneath it. The invoking of Michael phelps argument being a classic of its genre

Agreed. Groundhog day.

Comments are premoderated, it seems they don't want a repeat of the Matt Dickinson tarring and feathering.

Hopefully comments will still be huge and for common sense and the truth. My comment got premoderated yesterday but got through later so hopefully the same today.

@lovelyweathertoday

It's actually unintentionally hilarious. It consists entirely of arguments made by Philippa York, quoting from the article, "Philippa York, who as Robert Millar was one of Britain’s finest road cyclists,"

Maybe the writer should have tried speaking to Sharron Davies or another woman who can see what the issue is.

Maybe Pippa is identifying as a sports scientist?

"A debate no one can resolve.."

I can resolve it, pick me!

All sporting endeavours should be undertaken according to biological sex. Resolved.