Are the wife and children really fine?

[DancingBarefootOnIce]

A man I used to be close friends with recently came out as a transwoman on Facebook. I was a bit surprised as when I knew them in their 20s they were just a typical man. They’re now mid 30s and married to a woman with three children.

Anyway in their post the second sentence was something along the lines of “Don’t worry my wife and children are fine”. I’ve seen it before in stories like this or when someone comes out as gay.
It’s almost like there’s going to be an accusation of homophobia or transphobia if they’re not alright with it. It just doesn’t feel right. If my partner or father came out with something like that it would change so many things in thinking about past relationships etc.

Even though scenario 2 and 3 there are identical in the case of lesbians.

You're literally saying lesbians should be open to having sex with straight men because those men say they are lesbians.

And look - as I was typing you did indeed post

Some people will exclude all black people from their dating pool, and that's racist!

Is that racist or is that a personal preference for pale skinned red heads with freckles?

How to tell the difference? Well... we can't and, much as it is infuriating to some not to be able to make the situation a binary yes or no, that is how it is. We all have the right to screen anyone from the pool of who we will date.

Are you as upset when people talk about the gender they've given their new babies on Facebook?

@ElaineFuchs serious question - are you on glue?

And no bisexual people shouldn't feel pressured to have sex with them either. No one needs a 'get out card' to not want to have sex with men who identify as women.

And funnily enough no one is putting the same pressure on straight men and calling them transphobes if they don't want to have sex with a man just because he says he is a straight woman.

@DownWhichOfLate

“the gender they’ve given their new babies” . Priceless.

I missed this gem. Good grief.

Of course. Children can be especially bigoted. They need to be educated out of their bigotry at a very early age. Perhaps we need special camps to educate everyone who shows bigotry.

Could it be like a spa break? If so I'm in.

The more accurate analogy is with someone excluding racists from their dating pool.

It's not equivalent to excluding black people as a white person, it's equivalent to excluding white people who think black face is ok from your dating pool.

As long as it isn't WiSpa, maybe!

@ElaineFuchs

Maybe this woman's wife is bisexual or pansexual?

I think it depends what you mean by "not alright with it".

If you mean that her wife and children might be troubled by their exposure to societies transphobia (for instance being bullied at school for having a transgender mum) then that's a valid concern. The UK is home to some terrible transphobia.

If you mean that her wife or children might be themselves bigoted towards her, then that would be transphobic and should rightly be called out as such!

(And just to help prevent this being misinterpreted, I wouldn't consider it transphobic for a straight woman to want to end a romantic relationship with a trans woman who's recently found herself).

Congratulations to them all!

Jesus fucking Christ.

Congratulations, kids! You know that's your father. You know he made you with his sperm, but you're never allowed to acknowledge that truth. Instead, now you were made by two women, you have two mums, you're not allowed to mourn the loss of who you thought you had or your male role model. Because otherwise you're transphobic and should be hounded and bullied for having normal feelings of loss and anger for being made to live a lie right alongside your former Dad. Same with the wife. Don't be angry you were lied to and basically used as a cover! This person HAS to have known they were trans their whole life or they're a gynophile or gender dysphoric and we can't accept that as a reality either. So basically, suck it up that you were tricked into marriage and having kids with this person who always intended to throw this bomb into the middle of your lives. Congratulations!

It's hard to believe that people here are really saying that discriminating against someone purely because of the color of their skin isn't racist. Now I really have seen it all.

Of course, you can exclude who you like from your dating pool. But that doesn't stop excluding people just because of their race being racist. You're free to exclude all trans people, but excluding people because they're trans is transphobic. You can't have it both ways.

@ElaineFuchs

It's hard to believe that people here are really saying that discriminating against someone purely because of the color of their skin isn't racist. Now I really have seen it all.

Of course, you can exclude who you like from your dating pool. But that doesn't stop excluding people just because of their race being racist. You're free to exclude all trans people, but excluding people because they're trans is transphobic. You can't have it both ways.

I wouldn't date a transman because I only fancy men. Not women. Not discriminating.

@ElaineFuchs

Maybe this woman's wife is bisexual or pansexual?

I think it depends what you mean by "not alright with it".

If you mean that her wife and children might be troubled by their exposure to societies transphobia (for instance being bullied at school for having a transgender mum) then that's a valid concern. The UK is home to some terrible transphobia.

If you mean that her wife or children might be themselves bigoted towards her, then that would be transphobic and should rightly be called out as such!

(And just to help prevent this being misinterpreted, I wouldn't consider it transphobic for a straight woman to want to end a romantic relationship with a trans woman who's recently found herself).

Congratulations to them all!

Congratulations to them all? Really?

@ElaineFuchs I'm not sure which part of the GRA you dont understand?

It is a condition of receiving a gender recognition certificate that you do not change your legal gender for the purposes of parenting; your wife and child are not 'disgusting transphobic bigots' for refusing to call you Mum when you were previously Dad.

@ElaineFuchs

It's hard to believe that people here are really saying that discriminating against someone purely because of the color of their skin isn't racist. Now I really have seen it all.

Of course, you can exclude who you like from your dating pool. But that doesn't stop excluding people just because of their race being racist. You're free to exclude all trans people, but excluding people because they're trans is transphobic. You can't have it both ways.

So consent is racist/transphobic/etc.?

No. Sex is not a public service. The Equality Act doesn't apply. My sex life is exclusive, not inclusive, thank you very much. Whoever I do or don't include in it is my own private business. Fuck away from my bits. They're not yours to decide who I should or shouldn't share them with.

Why do you think.it requires any explanation? It's none of anyones business why someone doesn't date someone. They don't need your approval to date or not fate..you could find an "ism" for the other 6 billion people they aren't dating.

What both ways?

It doesn't have to be on the basis on being transphobic, it could be on the basis of being misogynist-phobic. For many women the idea that womanhood is a costume that can be put on and the idea that men should be entitled to access women's spaces is deeply misogynistic and they, quite sensibly, have no desire to be with a misogynist.

Are those feelings just to be whitewashed over and called transphobic?

I would absolutely leave DH if he decided he was transgender. It's not the trappings of make up or dress sense - he was a goth back in the day and looked HOT with a bit of make up. It's the inherent sexism of the genderist movement.
If he decided to define himself as a women based on the stereotypes of 'womanhood' like wearing dresses or being submissive and penetrated during sex then I would completely lose all respect for him. He know that I am a woman and that I am much more than a list of stereotypes of femininity - just like I know he's a man and much more than an emotionally starved GI Joe.

There's also the fact that many people, like me, are only attracted to being with someone who is comfortable in their own skin and has done the maturing work of coming to terms with themselves and accepting themselves without artifice or delusion. That would rule out trans people for a different reason than 'transphobic'. Sadly it rules out the majority of the population.

I can believe that they're 'fine' in that they've decided to stay in the relationship - some people are attracted primarily to a particular person, rather than their sex or gender. Biological sex or gender has never featured into who I'm attracted to or have fallen in love with - it's about who they are.

@ElaineFuchs

It's hard to believe that people here are really saying that discriminating against someone purely because of the color of their skin isn't racist. Now I really have seen it all.

Of course, you can exclude who you like from your dating pool. But that doesn't stop excluding people just because of their race being racist. You're free to exclude all trans people, but excluding people because they're trans is transphobic. You can't have it both ways.

That's because you aren't actually listening to what is being said. Read a little deeper.

I don't want anything both ways. I don't find being trans attractive. I don't find a transman attractive in the same was as I find a man attractive. They are not male. I don't find a transwomen attractive. They are male but they are not masculine, they want to be a woman. I don't find that attractive.

I don't find blonds attractive either. So would automatically exclude a blond man purely because he is blond. I might like him, may be his friend. But no sex.

It is my own personal bias. Not being bigoted. Not being 'ist'. Just not finding them attractive.

As I said, colour of skin makes everyone really uncomfortable as no right minded individual wants to be racist. But, for whatever the reasons, a personal sexual preference is just that. Or you start drifting into the realm of enforced sex, rape.

Whenever I see this sort of thing I assume that the person has always been the type to be the star of their own life and everyone else is a supporting actor, there to react to the star's storyline but not really existing outside of that. So in the case of someone who has become trans and is making a big public show about it the family probably are as fine as they've ever been because their lives have always been all about falling in with that person's wishes and being careful not to appear to criticise in any way for fear of the fall out that will follow.

@ElaineFuchs Obviously the sarcasm isn't working LOL

The problem those like yourself have is that people will take you seriously because the gender ideological extremists have people in their side that TRULY believe like that. And given how illogical these people are, how anything goes these days, it should give you pause for thought that someone would say to themselves 'that'd be right' and believe you because genderist extremists genuinely do think like that these days.

You see, sarcasm doesn't work when what you are saying is actually believable these days. That's where the genderists and Meninists/TRAs have given themselves an own goal. Nothing would surprise any of us any more. So the 'sarcasm' doesn't work.

I know a few men who came out late as gay. None of them are in contact with their children any more & in most cases aren’t considered even as part of the family. While the former partners often seem relieved and move on fairly quickly to what seem like better relationships. I think it’s probably fair to say that in many cases these men are probably not very nice to their families.

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

Well, you could have stopped there. You didn't need to explain your support for sexual coercion and policing of sexuality any further.

And everyone responds as though I've said "It's transphobic to ever reject a trans person for sex"

That's because you did. Well, I suppose you're going to say the difference is that of course it's ok to reject a trans person, it just mustn't be because they are trans. It's ok if it's because they're overweight or poor or anything else that you simply don't want to shag, just not because they're trans.

It's a gnat's wing of difference but it doesn't actually matter because it still comes down to denying a person's absolute right to say no for any reason. Would you support sexual coercion and policing for any other characteristic? If so, I guess at least you're consistent. But when, may I ask, can a person say no?

They’re not fine.