Are the wife and children really fine?

[DancingBarefootOnIce]

A man I used to be close friends with recently came out as a transwoman on Facebook. I was a bit surprised as when I knew them in their 20s they were just a typical man. They’re now mid 30s and married to a woman with three children.

Anyway in their post the second sentence was something along the lines of “Don’t worry my wife and children are fine”. I’ve seen it before in stories like this or when someone comes out as gay.
It’s almost like there’s going to be an accusation of homophobia or transphobia if they’re not alright with it. It just doesn’t feel right. If my partner or father came out with something like that it would change so many things in thinking about past relationships etc.

I hope Tea's insistence on exploiting disability to push the fallacy that there is no such thing as a woman isn't distressing anyone with a disability. I'm not disabled but I can't help finding it quite offensive. I feel the same when these people exploit differences of sexual development, as if those have anything to do with transgenderism either. I've not seen them drag disability into it before, though. I suppose it was only a matter of time.

@TeaKlaxon

Saying you disagree but failing to provide a coherent argument is a bit daft isn’t it?

You are using an offensive slur to describe me. I am offended.

If you won’t simply use women to describe women because of your delusion that males are women then at a push you could use the word ‘other’. For example, in a sentence it could read “most transwomen pee standing up, but other women do not”.

No offensive language needed. Have some respect for those you are talking about, or don’t talk about them.

[quote AllThingsServeTheBeam]@ElaineFuchs do you enjoy being wrong?

You have repeatedly been told not to use the made up word cis. So stop. Cis is not a thing. Ffs [/quote]
All words are made up

All words are made up

Then it shouldn't have mattered that people referred to you as "he" earlier. But the posts were removed for some reason...

@ElaineFuchs and some actually mean things. Cis is just nonsense

Cis exists purely to obfuscate the word, and therefore the concept of, woman. As we established yesterday, if "woman" requires a prefix, there can be no such thing as a woman.

I don't know why these people think we can't see what they're doing.

If woman means sex, then transwomen are not women.
If woman means some kind of mysterious gender identity, then the vast majority of posters on this board are not women, cis or otherwise.
One of the other of these must be true. Which is it, teaklaxon?

Excellent point.

I don't know why these people think we can't see what they're doing.

They can, it's part of the gaslighting thrill.

@DrSbaitso

Cis exists purely to obfuscate the word, and therefore the concept of, woman. As we established yesterday, if "woman" requires a prefix, there can be no such thing as a woman.

I don't know why these people think we can't see what they're doing.

It also makes no sense, trans women don't want the prefix of trans before woman, yet it's fine for cis?

It's a real shame that what started out as a promising thread about concern for a wife and children coping with the transition of their husband and father has been diverted into a circular language discussion which is really going nowhere as you can't get anywhere with the deliberately obtuse.

All orchestrated by Elaine and cheerleaders. They have done this on several threads now and is surely no accident.

Now out of courtesy is someone really and in good faith said they didn’t want me to refer to them personally as cisgender, that’s fine. But anyone demanding I stop using the term altogether to refer to the broad group of people who are not transgender can sod off.

Now out of courtesy if a transwoman really and in good faith said they didn’t want me to refer to them personally as a man, that’s fine. But anyone demanding I stop using the word 'man' altogether to refer to the broad group of people who are men can sod off.

That OK with you TeaKlaxon?

@DrSbaitso

All words are made up

Then it shouldn't have mattered that people referred to you as "he" earlier. But the posts were removed for some reason...

Indeed!

Here's an appropriate word: Hypocrisy.

It's amazing isn't it. The respect only goes one way. Misgendering someone trans is literal violence. Yet women ask for respect in not using the offensive word cis and none is given.

Once people show they have absolutely no intention of being respectful and acting in good faith it’s better just to ignore them completely. They won’t get another moment of my time.

If woman means sex, then transwomen are not women.
If woman means some kind of mysterious gender identity, then the vast majority of posters on this board are not women, cis or otherwise.
One of the other of these must be true.

This is it for me. If we're naming by identity rather than sex, then I, like so many others on this board, am agender, gender queer, or perhaps non-binary, depending on how they are being defined at any given time.

Under the Stonewall Umbrella, that makes us trans. If we're trans, then people to stop telling us to shut up because our opinion as 'cis women' doesn't matter, when apparently we're actually part of the very group they're trying to protect.

If we're naming by sex, then men aren't women, and men therefore need to stop telling women that they have no right to name themselves.

Either way, no one has the right to compel us to accept a descriptor or prefix, whether they consider it factual or not, while also insisting that we must respect the choices of other groups to name themselves.

@WifeOfTiresias

It's a real shame that what started out as a promising thread about concern for a wife and children coping with the transition of their husband and father has been diverted into a circular language discussion which is really going nowhere as you can't get anywhere with the deliberately obtuse.

All orchestrated by Elaine and cheerleaders. They have done this on several threads now and is surely no accident.

It's a deliberate tactic. However, the internal rage at women always seeps out and they end up demonstrating socially unacceptable views that (if I recall correctly) appear to condone eugenics, experimentation on babies, rape apology amongst a number of other unattractive beliefs.

This is it for me. If we're naming by identity rather than sex, then I, like so many others on this board, am agender, gender queer, or perhaps non-binary, depending on how they are being defined at any given time.

Under the Stonewall Umbrella, that makes us trans. If we're trans, then people to stop telling us to shut up because our opinion as 'cis women' doesn't matter, when apparently we're actually part of the very group they're trying to protect.

TRAs were outraged when a former poster here declared to her workplace that she was "gender free". A perfectly reasonable description for a GC woman who doesn't believe in gender identity, so is not "cis".

Yes, if woman refers to gender identity rather than sex I am certainly not cis.

The language around this is all designed to conflate sex with gender identity and make it impossible to articulate the concept of a sexed female. It is literal Newspeak, it's not satirical. That's also why this frequently goes along with exploiting people with DSDs, as if that's got anything to do with being trans.

Although hijacking disability is a low I haven't seen before.

Yes, if woman refers to gender identity rather than sex I am certainly not cis.

As always, these people want to have their cake, eat it, and yours too.

I reported the insistent use of cis, despite repeated request from posters and board guidelines, and they've decided to let it stand. Unsurprising but disappointing

Well I take it we can refer correctly and accurately to the class of men who would like to be female then. Great.

People with penises cannot be women.

Anyway. I feel strongly that we should respect the discussion that OP wanted to have here and also the women who have spoken about their experiences. The thread has been derailed for long enough.

@Nnique

Anyway. I feel strongly that we should respect the discussion that OP wanted to have here and also the women who have spoken about their experiences. The thread has been derailed for long enough.

People using trans widows experiences to have a go at each other and randomly debate hypotheticals is pretty much par for the course. God forbid something should be just about us.

It’s very difficult to let it go when people deliberately use derogatory, offensive and inflammatory language to try to cancel out women’s biology and everything that comes with it (good and bad, sadly), so I do understand why women argue back (I do too) but once they have demonstrated that they are acting in bad faith they should be entirely ignored and the discussion should get back to where it started.