Are the wife and children really fine?

[DancingBarefootOnIce]

A man I used to be close friends with recently came out as a transwoman on Facebook. I was a bit surprised as when I knew them in their 20s they were just a typical man. They’re now mid 30s and married to a woman with three children.

Anyway in their post the second sentence was something along the lines of “Don’t worry my wife and children are fine”. I’ve seen it before in stories like this or when someone comes out as gay.
It’s almost like there’s going to be an accusation of homophobia or transphobia if they’re not alright with it. It just doesn’t feel right. If my partner or father came out with something like that it would change so many things in thinking about past relationships etc.

@SamphiretheStickerist

You do know that doesn't work, don't you *@ElaineFuchs*?

You keep on making those exasperated statements of 'fact' shortly after a more rambling post that suggest that posters like Tinsel have understood you absolutely correctly.

Should you wish to stop having to explain yourself may I suggest you post with more clarity, less internal opposition?

Honestly, some people seem intent on misunderstanding.

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

And everyone responds as though I've said "It's transphobic to ever reject a trans person for sex"

Do you at least understand the difference here, @SamphiretheStickerist?

I'm attempting sarcasm to highlight this misunderstanding.

@ElaineFuchs Your opinion that a wife or childs reaction to their father transitioning is 'transphobic' is not supported by The Gender Recognition Act;

12 Parenthood
The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act does not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/12

@TinselAngel

If you mean that her wife or children might be themselves bigoted towards her, then that would be transphobic and should rightly be called out as such! So children who struggle with their Father's transition are bigoted now as well as trans widows?

We're already in a situation where any resistance from trans widows has been categorised as domestic abuse, and now we're roping children into that as well? The attempts to silence resistance really know no bounds.

Of course. Children can be especially bigoted. They need to be educated out of their bigotry at a very early age. Perhaps we need special camps to educate everyone who shows bigotry.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Yes, you owe everyone your body or you're a homophobe. This is what I believe and what I have stated many times

Wow.
So you think lesbians who don't want to have sex with men who claim to be women are the homophobes?

You think women 'owe their bodies' to any man that wants to have sex with them?

Obviously the sarcasm isn't working LOL

[quote Thelnebriati]@ElaineFuchs Your opinion that a wife or childs reaction to their father transitioning is 'transphobic' is not supported by The Gender Recognition Act;

12 Parenthood
The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act does not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/12[/quote]
Yes, because children consult legislation before greeting their parents every morning.

It's highly misogynistic to tell women who they have to find attractive.

Trans rights are not a trump card over discrimination on account of sex or the right to have sexual autonomy.

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

People have the right to exclude anyone from their dating pool fir any reason they want to frankly. It doesn't need to be justified to anyone. Whether or not you agree with the reason is irrelevant. Sex should be 100 percent consensual by both parties.

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

They’re almost certainly not ok but as the good ship MEEEEEE sails on your friend either won’t notice or won’t care

This.

I find statements like that to be completely self serving bullshit.

In time they may be but I would imagine a LOT of time would be required.

As for myself, I certainly would not be and I would be massively pissed off to be described as fine if I was not.

I would imagine for most children it must be confusing and mortifying.

@Movingonup22 my thoughts exactly... funny that... 🧐

@ElaineFuchs well today you know of someone who does not have their Gender showing. The original point though remains that the guy posting this on FB is a pratt.

My BIL's best friend is in this position. His parents' marriage broke off when he was a child when his Father came out gay, said Father was absent most of his children as he went to 'find out who he was'.

Said Father has recently come out as transgender and understandably the three children don't have much of a relationship. Dad now wants them to be called Mum and has told the three children it's offensive they won't.

All have said if you can't understand why this isn't a difficult process for the whole family we don't want to see you anymore. Nothing to do with being transgender, everything to do with the selfishness. You're our Dad, Mum's our Mum. You're not our Mum, will happily use whatever pronouns, names you like but you're not our Mum.

Yes the wife and children will be fine - in time. But the person they loved and knew is gone. It isn't like coming out as gay or getting a divorce. There is an expectance that when someone transitions that it's a very sanguine experience of discovery for all involved. It isn't, it's hugely traumatic for EVERYONE as they are essentially now grieving for that person in their life whilst being told they cannot question or have difficulties without being transphobic.

I think to say the wife and children are 'fine' is hideously naive, the wife and children are 'coping' because they love you. Remember that before making huge announcements on social media for fuck sake.

Men who change their legal gender and demand their children call them Mum are breaking the conditions of the GRA.
An organisation making that demand would be in breach of The Equality Act, and I dont see any good reason why individuals should not hold themselves to the same standard.

@Whatwouldscullydo

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

People have the right to exclude anyone from their dating pool fir any reason they want to frankly. It doesn't need to be justified to anyone. Whether or not you agree with the reason is irrelevant. Sex should be 100 percent consensual by both parties.

Correct! That doesn't mean that those exclusions are never rooted in bigotry or phobias though.

Some people will exclude all black people from their dating pool, and that's racist!

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

Well you can think it all you want but you're wrong

@Polyanthus2

(And just to help prevent this being misinterpreted, I wouldn't consider it transphobic for a straight woman to want to end a romantic relationship with a trans woman who's recently found herself).

What a kind and generous person you are.

What would you have them do then? The trans person has been allowed to be who they are. Why should their partner deny themselves a proper relationship? Your post makes no sense.

[quote MariaOnCorrie]@ElaineFuchs well today you know of someone who does not have their Gender showing. The original point though remains that the guy posting this on FB is a pratt.[/quote]
I don't understand this attitude. Isn't this exactly the kind of life announcement that facebook was made for?

Are you as upset when people talk about the gender they've given their new babies on facebook?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for removing gender from our society!

@Thelnebriati

Men who change their legal gender and demand their children call them Mum are breaking the conditions of the GRA. An organisation making that demand would be in breach of The Equality Act, and I dont see any good reason why individuals should not hold themselves to the same standard.

Can you elaborate on this?

If someone's not attracted to black/trans / short/ fat middle aged women like me then they simply aren't attracted to them. And frankly all those people deserve better than a pity shag from someone guilted into sleeping with them to avoid being labelled.

You cant police relationships like that.

@Samanabanana

Selfish AF. Those poor kids having their world turned upside down. The wife having her whole married life turned in to a sham. Live and let live is fine, as long as you're not dragging anyone else's emotions into it.

So you think she should just continue to live a lie? How does that make anyone happier? My dad was gay and never came out until he was literally on his death bed. He lived a miserable life trying to be someone he wasn’t and it made for a miserable time for his children and his wives (4 of them, trying to convince himself that he just needed the right woman). His diaries are the saddest thing I’ve ever read.

Well, what's the wife saying?

I'm attempting sarcasm to highlight this misunderstanding.

And yet you only seem to be attaining repetition and internalised contradictions!

I say "I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans"

And everyone responds as though I've said "It's transphobic to ever reject a trans person for sex"

You see you might think that there is a hairs breadth difference between those two statements. But most people reading them will scratch their heads and think "Huh?"

I think it's transphobic to not have sex with someone purely because they're trans

Is is racist not to have sex with someone purely because they are black you will offer , as a comparator? And the honest answer will make everyone feel uncomfortable because skin colour, along with all sorts of other pshycial attributes, do make up a large part of why we fancy who we fancy.

And everyone responds as though I've said "It's transphobic to ever reject a trans person for sex"

Which you did. You just gave a very contradictory reason for being able to reject a trans person - cos you don't fancy them. When it it their presenting themselves as trans that is the physicality that makes them unfanciable for some.

Would I date, have sex with, marry a man who wears a skirt? Yes. Back in the 80s I dated and had sex with men who wore skirts and even dresses. They were gender bending. I married one of them. Is he trans? No. Did he ever say anything other than he was following a fashion, being a gender bending male of the 1980s? No.

Did I fancy, have sex with, the gender bending friend who did later come out as trans? No. Why not? Because he was not a straight man wearing a dress he was a mixed up man who was unhappy in himself, who wanted to be someone/something else. He remains a friend, after almost 40 years of being something I can't call him here on MN because I will get deleted and possibly banned. He is a transwoman. A male bodied person who lives his life presenting the world with femininised version of himself.

If you have a pipe, pop that in it and inhale deeply before trotting out your next trite sentence or two.

“the gender they’ve given their new babies” . Priceless.

Personally I'd be devastated to learn that my partner saw my reality as a woman as something that he could 'feel'. I find the ideology sexist and offensive so it wouldn't be possible for me to continue an intimate relationship. Even if he didn't actually change anything about the way he looked or dressed or spoke, I wouldn't be with someone if it transpired we had such incompatible values. I am perfectly capable of being friendly and civil to people who have that belief system and I can separate their beliefs from them as people in most contexts, but not for a romantic and/or sexual relationship.

But of course it's not possible to say what this particular woman or these particular children are feeling right now.

And yet people don't go around demanding that people should have sex with them of whatever ethnicity should have sex with them. If a white man was going round saying black women should have sex with me and the only reason they won't is because they're racist he'd rightly be told to sit down.

If a straight man went around telling lesbians they should be willing to have sex with him he'd be told where to go.

Yet a man who wants to be a woman demanding women have sex with him otherwise they're transphobes is somehow backed up and pandered to by you.

Some people will exclude all black people from their dating pool, and that's racist!

You can exclude WHOEVER YOU WANT from your dating pool, it isn't racist, it isn't sexist it isn't any 'ist' at all.

Saying 'you must date me because excluding me is an 'ist'' is pretty rapey.