Are the wife and children really fine?

[DancingBarefootOnIce]

A man I used to be close friends with recently came out as a transwoman on Facebook. I was a bit surprised as when I knew them in their 20s they were just a typical man. They’re now mid 30s and married to a woman with three children.

Anyway in their post the second sentence was something along the lines of “Don’t worry my wife and children are fine”. I’ve seen it before in stories like this or when someone comes out as gay.
It’s almost like there’s going to be an accusation of homophobia or transphobia if they’re not alright with it. It just doesn’t feel right. If my partner or father came out with something like that it would change so many things in thinking about past relationships etc.

Just as I don't think the trans person in that relationship can speak for their wife and children, I don't think we can speak for them either.

Why should anyone else get to tell someone they are not allowed to use the word cis

Why should anyone else get to tell someone they must pretend men are women?

So how else do you propose to distinguish people who are trans from people who are not when it’s relevant to a discussion

Well if discussing biology and anything sex based, the words man and women or male and female work perfectly.

If you really need to pretend we can't tell the difference, then you can use women and transwomen. We don't need the prefix.

@ElaineFuchs You mean like these ANATOMICAL characteristics that forensic investigators and Coroners use to determine the sex of a person (next to teeth of course)?

We are having our language turned to Newspeak by attempts to conflate sex and gender, and pretensions that sex is "assigned" rather than observed, and we are the ones trying to control language?

Man, woman, transman, transwoman.

My gender identity matches the sex I was assigned at birth.

Nobody assigned you a sex at birth. Your gender identity is literally the clothes you wear and the things you do. If you 100% do all the stereotypical of your sex, and wear all the things 100% stereotypical of your sex that still makes you just a bog standard human who likes things and wears clothes.

Is it that you are desperate to be liked that you come out with this utter 'nonsense on stilts'?

ElaineFuchs, I honestly can't fiure out whether you are:

• a true genderist zealot whose every post reveals the lunacy and authoiritarian absolutism of your ideology;
• a gender critical plant whose every post seeks to highlight the lunacy and authoritarian absolutism of this ideology; or
• a person who knows very well that he or she is spouting utter bilge but is revelling in the vicious misogny and homophobia that are intrinsic to this lunatic, authoritarian and absolutist ideology.

Either way, I've started to find your posts actually amusing now. On account of the lunacy, authoritarianism and absolutism being laid so bare. Naked as an ash tree in the moon of May it is.

Just one piece of advice though to you and all your fellow activists: lay off the accusations of various "isms" against people for their sexual preferences (and, indeed, orientations). Guess what - equality legislation and principles do not apply to the ride. Everybody reading this should note the attempts to police and break down people's boundaries around their bodies and sexual availability. It is a persistent and prevalent theme of certain ideologies currently being pushed in society.

If you’re not trans then you’re cis. Sorry about it.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

@TeaKlaxon

If you’re not trans then you’re cis. Sorry about it.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

Haha. No. No I'm not.

The irony in you trying to tell me what I am though ay? When I aren't allowed to say stop using made up words that don't mean anything.

You're wrong and will always be wrong. I'm a woman. If a man wants to be a woman they are a transwoman. End of story.

Your comparison makes zero sense btw.

How old are you TeaKlaxon? Because using cis is a very recent thing. So you should be able to remember a time when we just said man or woman. Ah, those were the days.

@TeaKlaxon

If you’re not trans then you’re cis. Sorry about it.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

Nope.

You can repeat said codswallop as often as you like. If the vast majority of people just say piss off, don't be daft, you'll get nowhere.

Come back and try again when you have accessed some logic.

@TeaKlaxon

If you’re not trans then you’re cis. Sorry about it.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

@TeaKlaxon Wrong! There is no such thing as cis. If you are not trans, you are simply female, or male. Sorry but that is how it is. Transwoman or Woman. Transman or Man. There is no 'cis'. You are either a Woman, or you are trans. You are either a Man or you are trans. Full stop.

If you’re not trans then you’re cis.

If you're not sexed female then you're not a woman.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

Except nobody argues this. They argue against intellectually dishonest Newspeak designed to make it impossible to articulate the concept of a woman being an adult human sexed female.

@TeaKlaxon

If you’re not trans then you’re cis. Sorry about it.

Arguing otherwise is about as tiresome as straight people arguing there shouldn’t be a word to describe people not being gay or bi.

It is very transphobic to say if you are the thing you are you are one thing but if you aren't the thing you are it is another.

Better cancel yourself.

Tea, given you couldn't understand a perfectly lucid post earlier (and have failed to respond to it), why should we accept you as the final authority on words?

@TeaKlaxon

My H, when coming out to friends and family, told everyone I had known about it for years and I was perfectly happy about it. Both statements complete lies designed to make them look like less of a shit.

He even told one of our closest friends that we had made an agreement years back that we would have DC then he would transition.

The lies about me nearly broke me.

[quote PinaColada123456]**@TeaKlaxon* So how else do you propose to distinguish people who are trans from people who are not when it’s relevant to a discussion.*

That is easy. It is how we have been distinguishing trans from people who are not for decades.

Woman - Transwoman
Man - Transman

You are simply a Woman. You don't need any prefix in front. You're either a Woman or Transwoman. Women who identify with the sex they were born are simply called Women.

It's really as simple as that. No need to complicate things that are not complicated.[/quote]
There’s no such thing as a ‘transman’ or ‘transwoman’. Trans is an adjective. It is therefore a standalone word to describe people whose gender identity doesn’t align with the sex they were assigned (or even observed…) at birth.

And if those people exist then so too do people for whom that is not true. People like me. Stop trying to police the words those of us who are not transgender use about ourselves!

If you're not Christian you're a heathen.

@TeaKlaxon ok then, transgender man and transgender woman. That better? Because I as someone who is not transgender does not agree that we are 'cis'. So to differentiate I will always use transman or transwoman. I don't know a single person irl who agrees with the term 'cis'.

@TeaKlaxon You're being disingenuous. Transwoman or trans woman is the same thing.

You already have a term to describe yourself - woman. You always have. No one is policing anything because woman is the actual opposite of trans woman. Again, no 'cis' needed.

There’s no such thing as a ‘transman’ or ‘transwoman’. Trans is an adjective. It is therefore a standalone word to describe people whose gender identity doesn’t align with the sex they were assigned (or even observed…) at birth. And if those people exist then so too do people for whom that is not true. People like me. Stop trying to police the words those of us who are not transgender use about ourselves!

Er, by this logic there most definitely is such a thing as a transwoman, but there's no such thing as a woman. The word, according to you, has no meaning without a prefix.

Has someone told Wonder Ciswoman or the First Cislady that nobody understands who they are?

For what it's worth though, I don't care if you want to call yourself a ciswoman or the Mighty Mekon of Venus. But you don't get to dictate to us what we call ourselves and you certainly don't get to tell us that there's no such thing as a woman.

[quote AllThingsServeTheBeam]@TeaKlaxon ok then, transgender man and transgender woman. That better? Because I as someone who is not transgender does not agree that we are 'cis'. So to differentiate I will always use transman or transwoman. I don't know a single person irl who agrees with the term 'cis'. [/quote]
Yes of course. Transgender man or transgender woman is entirely appropriate language to describe trans people.

But if there are transgender people, by definition there must be people who are not transgender.

@OhHolyJesus

The wife and three children are not fine. Your world shifting in its axis does not result in feeling 'fine'.

As for the don't criticise vibe, I've got two words. Stephanie Schofield.

I was thinking of her too. Terrible situation

@DrSbaitso

There’s no such thing as a ‘transman’ or ‘transwoman’. Trans is an adjective. It is therefore a standalone word to describe people whose gender identity doesn’t align with the sex they were assigned (or even observed…) at birth. And if those people exist then so too do people for whom that is not true. People like me. Stop trying to police the words those of us who are not transgender use about ourselves!

Er, by this logic there most definitely is such a thing as a transwoman, but there's no such thing as a woman. The word, according to you, has no meaning without a prefix.

Has someone told Wonder Ciswoman or the First Cislady that nobody understands who they are?

For what it's worth though, I don't care if you want to call yourself a ciswoman or the Mighty Mekon of Venus. But you don't get to dictate to us what we call ourselves and you certainly don't get to tell us that there's no such thing as a woman.

I don’t think you understand what you mean when you said ‘by that logic’.

@TeaKlaxon correct! And those words are man and woman!