Are the wife and children really fine?

[DancingBarefootOnIce]

A man I used to be close friends with recently came out as a transwoman on Facebook. I was a bit surprised as when I knew them in their 20s they were just a typical man. They’re now mid 30s and married to a woman with three children.

Anyway in their post the second sentence was something along the lines of “Don’t worry my wife and children are fine”. I’ve seen it before in stories like this or when someone comes out as gay.
It’s almost like there’s going to be an accusation of homophobia or transphobia if they’re not alright with it. It just doesn’t feel right. If my partner or father came out with something like that it would change so many things in thinking about past relationships etc.

And women like those married to transwomen or to gay men, not only have to put on a public face of being fine for the sake of the men who have lied to them, they also have been denied the love and proper passion they deserve. We all deserve a love story. We all deserve to be adored and fancied. And our children deserve to have the parents they have always known.
If a man wants to dress as a woman, have a female babe, use female pronouns then he should have that, but we can still feel sorry for those left behind whose lives have been a lie. That isn’t trans phobic or bigoted.

@TeaKlaxon

"Once again more evidence that you are incapable of reading and comprehending. If you read this thread you would see it's about the transwoman silencing the wife and children and speaking for them and claiming they are 'fine' when they're not."

But no one here knows if the wife and children are fine or not.

And why is saying 'X is fine' silencing them? Have the wife and children lost all access to social media? Are they unable to speak up if they think they're state has been misrepresented?

The problem here is that people expect that everyone else will froth at the mouth as much as they would at encountering a trans person. Actually, for plenty of spouses of trans people, either the relationship survives, or it doesn't but ends amicably. And of course any adaptation in a relationship can be difficult, and an end of a marriage is obviously difficult. It may well be that the wife and children went through a lengthy period of not being fine but have come out the other side and now are fine.

Honestly, the number of people on here who consider that they know people's lives better than they do themselves is staggering.

If you really believe a wife who exchanged vows with her husband, or children who have to grapple with their dad basically being 'dead' and now having two mothers would be 'fine' then delusional doesn't even cover it and you certainly don't understand children. No child would be 'fine' with it, just like that. No child would be. This is common sense, human nature. It shouldn't need explaining to you.

Because that's the focus of the current moral panic

You mean the valid concerns of women worried that self I'd legislation will allow some predatory men to abuse it to gain access to female single sex spaces. That legitimate concer!

That assumes they knew when they got married that they were trans. Of course many trans people come to that realisation at a young age, but others come to it later, particularly those who have had to suppress those feelings or simply never had a name to relate their feelings to

Suppress feelings of what?. Give a definition of trans that doesn't involve stereotypes. Other wise it's no different to putting on a dress you hate for granny's birthday or being not allowed to wear trousers at school which most of us women had to do for years without it being some traumatic experience to the point it justifies lying to your spouses.

Even the professionals cannot come up with a definition that actually defines the terms. I.mean it's no longer considered a mental.illness. no changing of presentation required. It's not stereotypes. The body isn't wrong. So.what is.it? And why do wives have to feel.aorry fir the8r husbands who don't give up.any.aspects if their male privilege demonstrated by the fact that its usually the wives left home with the.kids dealing with it all whole eveeyone feels.sorry for the male.

Feels.sorry fir what?

Concern!

@TeaKlaxon but others come to it later, particularly those who have had to suppress those feelings or simply never had a name to relate their feelings to.

Women and children shouldn't have to pay the price for that. It's not fair on them. You clearly empathise with men over women. My empathy is for women and children.

*ElaineFuchs

Toomanyradishes

I would leave my husband if he was trans, but that doesnt make me transphobic and its idiotic to suggest it would. I fell in love with my husband, a man, with certain personality traits and physical characteristics. If my husband decided he was in fact a transwoman not only would my entire marriage be based on a lie which I would find very traumatising and hard to forgive, he would be rejecting the personality and charcter traits and physical characteristics that I found appealing.

There is no other senario where a partener finds out their entire relatioship is based on a sham and they have been lied to and is expected to just grit their teeth, smile sweetly and be fine with it.

I know first hand several relationships in which this has happened without any issue at all. Nobody thought that the relationship was based on a sham to my knowledge.

You are of course free to end a relationship if someone's personality changes or if their physical attributes change; I don't think that's inherently transphobic.*

So its simultaneously exactly the same to be married to a transwoman as it is to be married to a man, and they will look and act exactly the same, but transwomen are not men

Look either they are different, aka transwomen are women, and therefore its not transphobic to be upset and struggle with the transition as a wife, or transwomen are in fact men and its exactly the same to be married to them but it can be both.

If neither their personality or their physical attributes change then where is the fucking transition?

If my husband came out as gay i reserve the right to be upset and not be 'fine' and thats not homophobic, its actually quite natural because your whole world changes
If my husband came out as trans I reserve the right to be upset and not be 'fine' and thats not transphobic, its actually quite natural because your whole world changes

If you are in a partnership your actions have an impact on your partner. It doesnt mean that you shouldnt do or be something ypu feel strongly in but it is selfish to refuse to acknowledge the impact on your partner

[quote PinaColada123456]**@TeaKlaxon* but others come to it later, particularly those who have had to suppress those feelings or simply never had a name to relate their feelings to.*

Women and children shouldn't have to pay the price for that. It's not fair on them. You clearly empathise with men over women. My empathy is for women and children.[/quote]
Why would you have to choose?

If someone comes to a realisation later in life that means their marriage either cannot survive or needs to adapt (if the other party is willing), why can we not empathise with everyone in that scenario. Why would you think your empathy should be directed only in one direction or other.

If a woman realised she was a lesbian after ten years of marriage, never cheated on her husband but ended the marriage, should we deny her empathy just because it should be with her husband and children? Or should we do the basic human thing of empathising with everyone involved in a pretty rubbish situation.

@Whatwouldscullydo

That assumes they knew when they got married that they were trans. Of course many trans people come to that realisation at a young age, but others come to it later, particularly those who have had to suppress those feelings or simply never had a name to relate their feelings to

Suppress feelings of what?. Give a definition of trans that doesn't involve stereotypes. Other wise it's no different to putting on a dress you hate for granny's birthday or being not allowed to wear trousers at school which most of us women had to do for years without it being some traumatic experience to the point it justifies lying to your spouses.

Even the professionals cannot come up with a definition that actually defines the terms. I.mean it's no longer considered a mental.illness. no changing of presentation required. It's not stereotypes. The body isn't wrong. So.what is.it? And why do wives have to feel.aorry fir the8r husbands who don't give up.any.aspects if their male privilege demonstrated by the fact that its usually the wives left home with the.kids dealing with it all whole eveeyone feels.sorry for the male.

Feels.sorry fir what?

You may have confused me with someone who has an interest in indulging anti-trans talking points.

I don't care if you don't think being trans is real or valid. The point is that no one on this thread has the first clue whether this person's wife and children are ok or not. So they just jump to the assumption that supports their prejudice.

@TeaKlaxon

When I attempted to put my side I lost my relationship with my brother and sister and several friends. ExH attempted to drag me through the courts to gain access to DD who wasn't biologically his and said it was my transphobia that was preventing access. It wasn't - it was the fact that a) she wasn't his and b) she was terrified of him. Happily the courts saw through him pretty quickly, but not before several hearings to establish facts.

He absolutely painted himself as the victim and as I said, was celebrated for his bravery. When I told my side, I was called a drama queen and a liar. I lost everything, my home, my family, friends.

And of course I'd given a decade of my life to a person who was never truly available in the first place. That's not on me, and it's not my fault. If he'd always known he was a woman as he claimed when our relationship ended, what right did he have to marry someone without telling them? And then pretty much blame his wife/marriage for making him feel so trapped and frustrated he resorted to violence? There was no cultural pressure for him to marry. He did not need to involve anyone else.

This x 1000

Because that's the focus of the current moral panic.

Let me get this straight @SevenWaystoLeave

You are saying that women forced out of rape counselling because a man chose to sit in; women sexually assaulted in hospital, in prison by men are some kind of moral panic?

You are saying that women who do not wish to share single sex spaces and services with any man for any reason are in a moral panic?

How little you value the safety and dignity of women and girls.

@TeaKlaxon The point is that no one on this thread has the first clue whether this person's wife and children are ok or not.

Again, we do know. As it is simply not possible for a wife and children to be told their whole life was a lie, and their daddy is now 'dead'. You can deny this fact to suit your prejudice, your brainwashing, ideology and agenda, but you can never state with a straight face that any child will be perfectly fine with having their life destroyed and their father 'killed'. You'd have to be a psychopath to argue the case that a child in particular would be 'fine' with that.

But those statements have come.from the " pro trans" lobby.

If you are talking abiut justifying lying to.your wife and kids for your entire married life an idea of what they have been lied to abuse the.least anyone can do.

But if there's no explanation then that's just confirming what is already suspected its not some stand against " anti trans" people

don't care if you don't think being trans is real or valid. The point is that no one on this thread has the first clue whether this person's wife and children are ok or not. So they just jump to the assumption that supports their prejudice.

Works the other way too.

Lied to about is the least anyone can do

I can’t see how anyone would be ok with finding out their life had been a massive lie !!!

[quote PinaColada123456]**@TeaKlaxon* The point is that no one on this thread has the first clue whether this person's wife and children are ok or not.*

Again, we do know. As it is simply not possible for a wife and children to be told their whole life was a lie, and their daddy is now 'dead'. You can deny this fact to suit your prejudice, your brainwashing, ideology and agenda, but you can never state with a straight face that any child will be perfectly fine with having their life destroyed and their father 'killed'. You'd have to be a psychopath to argue the case that a child in particular would be 'fine' with that.[/quote]
Made up nonsense again.

And conjecture. Who says they were told Daddy is 'dead' (and why did you use quote marks?)?

The fact is that many people experience all sorts of difficulties in their life and come out the other side and can be described as 'fine' after it. It can take time and difficult adaptation. But the notion that there is not a single spouse or child of a trans person who could not be described as 'fine' is absolute nonsense.

I know this because there are spouses and children on the record as saying they are fine. In some cases it took time, often took external help like therapy, but they are now fine. You have no way at all of knowing if the family the OP refers to might also fall into that category.

@334bu

*don't care if you don't think being trans is real or valid. The point is that no one on this thread has the first clue whether this person's wife and children are ok or not. So they just jump to the assumption that supports their prejudice.*

Works the other way too.

Not in this case, because I'm not making any assumptions.

It very well may be that this person is lying (or deluded) when they say their wife and children are fine. I don't know.

But neither does anyone else on here. I just seem to be the only one willing to admit that.

But neither does anyone else on here. I just seem to be the only one willing to admit that.

No you're not.

But neither does anyone else on here. I just seem to be the only one willing to admit that.

My first post on this thread was "well, what does the wife say?". Then I said I could certainly accept that some women would be fine with it. Others have said the same thing.

This is the problem with entering debates with the intention of bolstering yourself as the lone ranger good guy, rather than actually reading and interacting. You end up saying silly stuff.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

That's also what men who fuck off every weekend for their hobby leaving their wife and kids alone says. It's what every man who finds a younger woman and leaves his wife and kids says. It's what every man who spends the family money on themselves says. Basically, it is what every man who really only thinks of themselves and does not consider women to be anything more than support humans to him, his life, needs and wants thinks.

Amen.

A man cannot be a woman.

He thinks he would like to be what his idea of a woman is but as he can't possibly know what it is to be a woman he can only become an idea he has in his own head.

Sometimes, I think it would be nice to be a cat-lie in the sun all day sleeping but I don't know what it actually is to be a cat-how can I. I might buy myself a cat suit and lie on the sofa purring but that doesn't mean I'm a cat. I'm a pretend cat and no real cat would accept me as a cat.

I don't accept men who pretend to be a woman-their version of what they think is a woman.

A cat wouldn't accept a man pretending to be a cat so why should women accept men pretending to be women. Why should we have to put up with what a cat wouldn't.

Men do not know what it is like to be a woman so it is crazy bollocks to say that they have become one.

You can't change the colour of your skin.

In fact there's a riproar if a white person tries to explain what a person of colour might think and rightly so because how can a white person actually know what it is to be a person of colour but no riproar when a man says he knows what it is to be a woman to the extent that he calls himself one!

@TeaKlaxon So if children are taught that their daddy no longer exists as their 'daddy' anymore, but is instead another mummy, you honestly don't think children will mourn the loss of the father they had? Are you really this disconnected from reality that 'deadnaming' someone is an offence, but by virtue of the fact their 'daddy' no longer exists as their daddy is..... not a problem to you, and they can just...... get over it and forget they ever had a daddy?

[quote PinaColada123456]**@TeaKlaxon* So if children are taught that their daddy no longer exists as their 'daddy' anymore, but is instead another mummy, you honestly don't think children will mourn the loss of the father they had? Are you really this disconnected from reality that 'deadnaming' someone is an offence, but by virtue of the fact their 'daddy' no longer exists as their daddy* is..... not a problem to you, and they can just...... get over it and forget they ever had a daddy?[/quote]
Did you want to try that again with syntax?