Active discussions

Help protect children from gaming harms.

Take our survey

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
Joinedforthis22 · 22/03/2022 07:45

@NurseBernard honest question as I'm not asking to be difficult, I think there are massive issues around the erosion of females spaces and what it means to be a woman but I can't understand being concerned about an individual man who the OP knows, or is it common to hold all men guilty until proven otherwise?

BiscuitLover3678 · 22/03/2022 07:46

What if this was a woman who was gay? Would you still be scared of her coming and using the toilet with you? So messed up.

DuckyNoMates · 22/03/2022 07:46

So now the focus of the evening is going to be male friend's transition, not the event which the OP and her friend have been looking forward to. Not the same thing at all. it doesn't have to be. Just treat them the same as any other camera shy woman.

ReeseWitherfork · 22/03/2022 07:47

@ItsLisaLou

Oh look another mumsnet thread where everyone hates on transgender people and thinks they’re all hiding in toilets waiting to pounce on straight women, how refreshing
If you're getting annoyed at how common these threads are, maybe you need to do some reflection on why? There's plenty of explanation and justification for why women feel the way they do about protecting same sex spaces.
BlueSlate · 22/03/2022 07:47

@Joinedforthis22

clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

Honest question, do you feel the same about lesbians using female toilets? Or do you think your friend's friend can't control himself and is a rapist? Which if so I wonder why you are having anything to do with him.

Lesbians are women. HTH.

As for your other comments, women marry rapists; women have children with rapists largely because men don't go around introducing themselves, "Hi, I'm Dave. I'm a rapist," so we segregate some areas of life, when women might be at risk from men, to protect them.

Any man you meet could be a rapist. It's why we advise women not to accept lifts from strangers or to go to a man's house on a first date. Precisely because we don't know which men are rapists and which are not.

Putting a dress on does not reduce the likelihood of men being rapists.

Cross dressing is the most common paraphilia of sex offenders.

50% of the TW in prison are there for sex offences compared with 11% in the general male population.

This man has already shown a lack of regard for other people's boundaries - how many times have you included yourself uninvited on a strangers night out and then sought to dictate the terms of the night out? The answer would he never I guess.

Jonny1265 · 22/03/2022 07:47

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Blokes don't care who uses the toilets. Women sometimes use the gents as the queues are shorter too. I've never witnessed any abuse in toilets of anyone.
titchy · 22/03/2022 07:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

BiscuitLover3678 · 22/03/2022 07:48

Having a penis does not mean you have an urge to go into the toilet and perve on women. What does this say about your perception of gay women? Because that’s homophobic and also disgusting.

Lalliella · 22/03/2022 07:48

Hijacking your night out. Making it all about him. Not caring about the impact on you.

Entitled much.

Your friend should point this out to him.

Cleanbedlinen12 · 22/03/2022 07:48

Also it’s nothing to do with being rude about trans. I’d feel the same if my friends mate wanted to suddenly announce any big news that’s a secret to everyone else. It’s unfair, and selfish I think anyway.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/03/2022 07:49

@Allandnothing

Presumably they think your friend is a good friend and someone who will be supportive but thIs doesn’t seem to be the case. Your friend should talk to them and explain that she’s not comfortable with this, for whatever reason. And it sounds like the trans woman needs to get better friends.
Yes indeed. Needs to find 'friends' who have no boundaries and who will joyfull accept their designated role of cheerleaders for their brave and stunning friend.
BiscuitLover3678 · 22/03/2022 07:49

@titchy the whole concern the op had was that the friend is attracted to women. Literally nothing to do with how his/her genitals are looking.

DuckyNoMates · 22/03/2022 07:49

@BiscuitLover3678

Having a penis does not mean you have an urge to go into the toilet and perve on women. What does this say about your perception of gay women? Because that’s homophobic and also disgusting.
What? I thought lesbians didn't have penises generally
Joinedforthis22 · 22/03/2022 07:49

@McDuffy are you fucking kidding me? The whole point is about serial attraction in shared spaces. Calling me Lesbophobic and publicly announcing your reporting me is why there can't be conversations and dialog, perhaps what I said was ignorant, I'm not educated enough about it which is why I asked but if your going to just scream labels at me then you're just going to turn me away from wanting to learn, which as an individual might not matter but I'm not just one person I'm one of many confused and baffled by both sides.

Oopsydaisynotagain · 22/03/2022 07:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

DuckyNoMates · 22/03/2022 07:50

@Lalliella

Hijacking your night out. Making it all about him. Not caring about the impact on you.

Entitled much.

Your friend should point this out to him.

They don't have to make it all about them. Most women I know don't make things all about them so it should be fine. They aren't going to be sat there going on about how they are in a dress presumably.
BiscuitLover3678 · 22/03/2022 07:51

@titchy I can see you have very strong views about transpeople but don’t make clearly ridiculous comments about me being homophobic. Obviously I’m not because I’m saying how ridiculous you are. 😂 I’m NOT the one assuming somebody is coming into the toilet to do anything unsavoury. 😂

ItsLisaLou · 22/03/2022 07:53

@BiscuitLover3678

It sounds like you had no issue with a man coming but someone who dresses as a woman and is probably more feminine you now have an issue with?

I’m sure this person will be highly sensitive and not be using the toilet at the same time as you anyway because he/she will be sh**scared about all that they are going through.

Honestly I used to be gender critical but mumsnet has made me realised how freaking transphobic so many people are.

Depressing isn’t it. But for every ignorant pearl clutcher mouthing off on mumsnet there are just as many compassionate people out in the real world who would be sensitive to the needs and fears of this person. Guess it’s good that this person finds out who their real friends are sooner rather than later…
Quackpot · 22/03/2022 07:53

You could always just roll with it but at the first possible opportunity say firmly and clear "I'm afraid this is a sex segregated space, the men's are over there, and the disabled toilets are there"

He will probably flounce off and call you transphobic but you won't have to worry about him gatecrashing your evenings in future

Iluvfriends · 22/03/2022 07:53

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
What about a person with a penis using the female toilets wont they get abuse too......oh no that's right, us women aren't allowed a voice.
Jobseeker19 · 22/03/2022 07:53

What I don't understand Re toilets, is that when our sons reach 8-9 maybe even younger, we make them go to the mens by themselves and that can be uncomfortable for me and them but its what we do to make other women feel comfortable.

We know our children do not pose any harm and they are with their mother, but they have a penis and need to use the mens toilet now. (Where they have to look down so they don't see mens bits in the urinals)

Why do transwomen feel like they can use the women's toilet even if they pose no harm?

Hatinafield · 22/03/2022 07:55

@Joinedforthis22 “The whole point is about serial attraction in shared spaces.”

No, it isn’t. It’s about preserving the safety and dignity of single sex spaces and rights, a principle which was created and enshrined in law due to male violence against women throughout the ages.

RobotValkyrie · 22/03/2022 07:55

Honesty is the best policy.
If the situation makes you uncomfortable, simply explain that you were expecting a night out with , not , and that you don't feel like it's the right time and place for you to get to know this new person. Sorry. That's too bad. Maybe another time.

Dealing with rejection (gracefully or otherwise) is a social skill everyone needs to learn, whether they call themselves Mark or Martha.
Useful lesson for anyone embarking on a new journey: it's not always smooth sailing. Other people have their own agency.
They will thank you later. Or not. Not your cross to bear. You look after your own boundaries, they look after theirs.

Iluvfriends · 22/03/2022 07:55

To add to the above ......us females have to be quiet and accepting because the male population wont...just about sums it up.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/03/2022 07:56

*Hijacking your night out. Making it all about him. Not caring about the impact on you.

Entitled much.

Your friend should point this out to him*

Exactly. Your night out - now it's all about him.

Fuck that.

Uninvite him and explain that women are not support humans.