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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
Terfydactyl · 22/03/2022 07:19

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

Even on a board on the internet (where it does not matter) you misgendered a person. Can you imagine how difficult it'll be in real life on the night. You only have to say the wrong pronoun once and be forever labelled a transphobe. For OP just get out of it, it sounds like it'll be a crap night now, not what you wanted or expected. Also with the no photos rule it sounds a lot like some gaslighting going on, if it's a coming out why no photos?
Joinedforthis22 · 22/03/2022 07:19

clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

Honest question, do you feel the same about lesbians using female toilets? Or do you think your friend's friend can't control himself and is a rapist? Which if so I wonder why you are having anything to do with him.

LadyMacduff · 22/03/2022 07:22

@EdenFlower the ironic thing is that quite often we do wear the same clothes! I soend most of my time in jeans, jumpers and trainers. Strange that the person in the OP can't have their coming out event dressed like that.

Pyjamagame · 22/03/2022 07:23

This reply has been deleted

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georgarina · 22/03/2022 07:25

Of course females dressed as a female will be using the female toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse females will have if females enter that male toilets?!
"GtFO, Go use the female toilets this is a male only toilet"

So we expect and accept men defending their spaces, but women aren't allowed to defend theirs (even though they're the ones at risk of being unsafe).

EishetChayil · 22/03/2022 07:27

Just cancel. He sounds like a massive narcissist.

Philisophigal · 22/03/2022 07:27

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn at the user's request.

ItsLisaLou · 22/03/2022 07:27

Oh look another mumsnet thread where everyone hates on transgender people and thinks they’re all hiding in toilets waiting to pounce on straight women, how refreshing

McDuffy · 22/03/2022 07:28

@Joinedforthis22

clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

Honest question, do you feel the same about lesbians using female toilets? Or do you think your friend's friend can't control himself and is a rapist? Which if so I wonder why you are having anything to do with him.

Reported for Lesbophobia Homosexual women are female, and nothing to do with this situation.
Pyjamagame · 22/03/2022 07:29

This reply has been deleted

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DuckDuckNo · 22/03/2022 07:32

I've never seen someone get a kick out of watching a lady use the loo tbh.

Were you born yesterday?

NurseBernard · 22/03/2022 07:33

@Joinedforthis22

clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

Honest question, do you feel the same about lesbians using female toilets? Or do you think your friend's friend can't control himself and is a rapist? Which if so I wonder why you are having anything to do with him.

Oh honest question….?

As opposed to what sort of question….? Confused

No, I’m not worried about lesbians in women’s loos, because lesbians don’t have a track record of raping and murdering women.

Men, as a group, do.

And unfortunately, they don’t come with signs, signalling which are the dodgy ones.

WeRTheOnesWeHaveBeenWaitingFor · 22/03/2022 07:34

I don’t think I’d care about what anyone is wearing on a night out. I don’t like the idea that I may be unwittingly playing a B role in someone else’s regressive fantasies. I’d go along and just see how the night turns out, mainly our if curiosity. Then report back to mumsnet. You never know he might be genuine.

MrsWooster · 22/03/2022 07:37

@Susu49

Sorry, her
I think this is my favourite moment in this debate. I literally guffawed.
BlueSlate · 22/03/2022 07:38

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Women not woken!
It is what the woken would do Wink

As a man I can tell you that if a bloke wearing a dress walks into mens toilet, the reaction 99.99% of the time from other men in there will simply be a roll eyes and a ‘why the fuck is that bloke wearing a dress?’

I think you'd find that eye roll and lack of fawning validation would also be abuse Wink

If the words 'TW are not women' is a 'literal violence', who knows the harm an eye roll could do...

Allandnothing · 22/03/2022 07:40

‘clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.
’

I’m gay and I can tell you that I don’t get my jollies ogling women in the loos…

PinaColada123456 · 22/03/2022 07:40

@Joystir59

Why can't your friend say he is welcome to come along but neither of you could care what he wears, as clothes aren't exciting or part of being a woman.. Him going in the ladies toilets isn't your or your friends issue.
@Joystir59 Him going to the ladies toilets is very much her and her friends issue (and every woman's issue). They don't agree with it.
Beamur · 22/03/2022 07:41

You don't need to know their reasons or speculate about intentions or behaviour.
If you're not comfortable (and with good reason) then the answer is no. Don't make up excuses or feel rude - the simple answer is you don't want your night out with your friend being hijacked by someone you don't know, I think finding it akin to being party to a secret you're not comfortable with is apt. You're not a prop.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/03/2022 07:41

@Nellle

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

No. What has happened here, according to the OP is as follows.
  • OP and friend both want to go this event and are looking forward to it.
  • Friend mentions event to a male friend, presumably on the basis of a shared interest in whatever the event is about.
  • Male friends says 'Oh, sounds good, can I tag along?'
  • OP and friend say this is fine. At this point they are expecting a pleasant evening where the focus of attention will be on the event and they will all talk about what is happening at the event, amongst other things. Given that OP has never met male friend before, they will need to get to know each other a bit to feel relaxed in each other's company.
  • Male friend then announces (with no consultation) 'Huge night for me! First time ever going out dressed as my authentic self, which is as a woman. This is the dress I'm going to wear, what do you think? Will be tottering about in my heels too, I'm so excited! Also, please call me Sarah when I'm dressed, as that's my trans name.'
  • So now the focus of the evening is going to be male friend's transition, not the event which the OP and her friend have been looking forward to. Not the same thing at all.

Regardless of their feelings about gender ideology, surely you can see that the male friend is behaving in a very selfish way? Butting in, making it all 'Me me me!' and also putting them in a very awkward position if male friend uses the female toilets, which they know, as we all do, will make many of the women attendees very uncomfortable. But that doesn't matter, of course, compared with male friend's need for validation.

Cleanbedlinen12 · 22/03/2022 07:43

Wow. How selfish is he?
I would suggest that your friend says something along the lines of it’s a special night for the pair of you and he is welcome to have a coming out night at some stage, but he needs to take responsibility and arrange it. Your friend could say she’s happy to support him but needs to do it gently in a quiet pub or something as it is a big deal for her as well as him.
If he doesn’t like it, well, he’s not much of an understatement chum. She could always say,’well a woman would understand’
( naughty !)

MrsWooster · 22/03/2022 07:44

@Allandnothing

‘clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc. ’

I’m gay and I can tell you that I don’t get my jollies ogling women in the loos…

You don’t belong to the sex class who commit >98% of sexual assaults.
TeaKlaxon · 22/03/2022 07:45

YABU

Let’s just be clear that a night out is not some sacrosanct ritual that no one else can join or make important to them. You were happy to have this person along when you thought she was a cisgender straight man. It doesn’t sound like this is some special occasion like a birthday that’s going to be detracted from by someone coming out.

Second, why would someone coming out make it all about them. Coming out literally just means it is her first night out presenting as a woman. How does that hijack your night? If she had said instead that she was a gay man and that would have been her first night out as an openly gay man, would that also be hijacking the night?

You have no obligations to this woman, but I think you should certainly examine your prejudices and be less shitty towards her.

Your friend on the other hand sounds awful - she claims to be a friend of this person but is unwilling to support them through transition. I hope this person realises sooner rather than later how awful your friend is to them and finds a better support network.

BiscuitLover3678 · 22/03/2022 07:45

It sounds like you had no issue with a man coming but someone who dresses as a woman and is probably more feminine you now have an issue with?

I’m sure this person will be highly sensitive and not be using the toilet at the same time as you anyway because he/she will be sh**scared about all that they are going through.

Honestly I used to be gender critical but mumsnet has made me realised how freaking transphobic so many people are.