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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

387 replies

bonfireheart · 19/03/2022 11:12

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

Don't know how true this story is but wonder if the public reaction to stuff like this will become more common.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Runningupthecurtains · 23/03/2022 00:01

Equality (as the the Equalities act) is equality of opportunity, not equality of treatment. So if we eradicate sex/age/para categories in sport everyone would have the same treatment but they would not have the same opportunity.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 23/03/2022 00:04

@PermanentTemporary

Oh fuck Ron de Santis. Really, fuck the rightwingers trying to pretend they give a shit about women in this and creating a massive circus in order to wank off their base and meaning that Emma Weyant comes under yet more pressure to dissociate herself from the entire issue.
The leftwingers are holding the door open for them to do that.

No-one is forcing the left to stop pretending they give a shit about women.

Enough4me · 23/03/2022 00:10

@Runningupthecurtains, I like that explanation. Equality of opportunity would mean women's categories must be for women for anatomical reasons, not to be squashed to appease male feelings.

Runningupthecurtains · 23/03/2022 00:20

Ah, yes. I forgot that men are unable to do floor routines if there is music playing in the background.
You also forgot all the information given in this thread about the different in balance between males and females thanks to the difference in pelvic arrangement, hence female gymnasts complete on the balance beam while male gymnasts don't.
Oh and the information about difference in upper body strength, hence men compete on the rings and women don't.

Surely if societal attitudes account for 99% of differences the gap would be much closer in events that women have been able to participate in for over a century e.g. the 100m than in events that were only recently added to the female event rota e.g. the pole vault.

No, that doesn't logically follow

Part of your logic seems to be that more men than women take part in sport so they will post better times/distances because it is more likely that the very best possible man will have been discovered but you don't think it is logical to assume that an event that has been done by say 1 in 50 sporty women for a century would have a greater chance of having be pursued by the very best possible woman than an event that has only been tried by a handful of women for a decade. The performance gap between men and women is remarkably similar across every running event from 60m to the marathon and this gap is established and fixed within a very short space of an event being added to the female schedule. You argued that men are quicker because more men run so surely it is a logical extension of that argument to say women's times should be closer to men's in events that lots of women have tried and further away in events that very few women have tried.

Runningupthecurtains · 23/03/2022 00:36

[quote Enough4me]@Runningupthecurtains, I like that explanation. Equality of opportunity would mean women's categories must be for women for anatomical reasons, not to be squashed to appease male feelings.[/quote]
Equality of opportunity means putting in lift and ramps for disabled access, equality of treatment would be shrugging shoulders and pointing at the stairs.

lockdownhasbrokenme · 23/03/2022 07:47

Equality vs equity

Trans athlete wins in female swimming race
334bu · 23/03/2022 08:00

Being discussed later on GMB

Helleofabore · 23/03/2022 08:23

You also forgot all the information given in this thread about the different in balance between males and females thanks to the difference in pelvic arrangement, hence female gymnasts complete on the balance beam while male gymnasts don't.

Oh and the information about difference in upper body strength, hence men compete on the rings and women don't.

Greasey just keeps on giving.

It is of course a very well known fact that males can perform floor routines and even uneven bar routines that females cannot. Because of twitch muscles and other muscles for jumping, and a whole raft of differences..

Oh and grip strength and hand size for staying attached to uneven bars while your body weight is swung around and around.

But crack on greasy. You are doing really good work. Every time.

Pinklimey · 23/03/2022 08:43

InBBC Sport news today: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/60842863

LauriePartridge4Eva · 23/03/2022 08:48

Just caught the tail end on GMB....two trans males talking about women's sports. Obviously couldn't find an actual woman to talk about our own rights.

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/03/2022 09:41

I didn't say it's likely. I said it's never been accurately studied and determined.

@greasyshoes thousands of undergrad students repeat long known physiological and biological tests every fucking year... becaue the results are known, can be demonstrated by even the most lacklustre of students, checked against an enormous library of previous data and discussed in detail by every member of every sport science department.

That YOU have no idea doesn't make it a fact!

And then you folow that up with this:

Those are bad examples because gymnastics and dance are different for men and women.

Which completely contradicts everything else you have deigned to post. you DO know that there are physiological differences between the sexes that have an effect of performance!

And I bet you thought you were still being clever!

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/03/2022 09:42

@greasyshoes

Why are they different? Hmmmm could it be perhaps maybe because male and bodies are different?

Ah, yes. I forgot that men are unable to do floor routines if there is music playing in the background.

Unable?

Twonk!

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/03/2022 09:42

@flyingbuttress43

www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-l_XDC8g34

Florida governor DeSantis has just announced they are to make a proclamation naming Emma Weyant (who came second behind Lia Thomas) as the top 500m freestyle swimmer and criticising the NCAA as trying to destroy female athletics.

WOW!

Good for him!

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/03/2022 09:45

@PermanentTemporary

Oh fuck Ron de Santis. Really, fuck the rightwingers trying to pretend they give a shit about women in this and creating a massive circus in order to wank off their base and meaning that Emma Weyant comes under yet more pressure to dissociate herself from the entire issue.
If the woolly left weren't so determined to hold open so many doors, to shy away from standing up for what is right, then there would be no pressure, no problem.

If even right wngeres can see that this is madness then you know there is a real problem. Just because they are right wing doesn't mean they get everything wrong. Just as being on the left doesn't make you always in the right!

(that lefting and righting was getting a bit close to a comedy skit - my apologies)

Helleofabore · 23/03/2022 09:50

that lefting and righting was getting a bit close to a comedy skit - my apologies)

I too am so bored with it.

Zillamop · 23/03/2022 09:55

Just because they are right wing doesn't mean they get everything wrong. Just as being on the left doesn't make you always in the right!

Well said. Political fundamentalism is dangerous. When left-wing politicians feel they must adopt a misogynistic, false premise such as 'transwomen are women', because they're afraid of being ostracised (or called a Tory) for their valid opinion, you know something is wrong.

ScreamingMeMe · 23/03/2022 10:28

@Zillamop

Just because they are right wing doesn't mean they get everything wrong. Just as being on the left doesn't make you always in the right!

Well said. Political fundamentalism is dangerous. When left-wing politicians feel they must adopt a misogynistic, false premise such as 'transwomen are women', because they're afraid of being ostracised (or called a Tory) for their valid opinion, you know something is wrong.

I find it ironic that to TRAs and allies (I'm not calling you either, PT), sex isn't binary, but politics and activism absolutely is.
Artichokeleaves · 23/03/2022 10:38

@Enough4me

A man, a man has appeared. Better still two men.

There we were saying elite women cannot compete with elite men, but we made the mistake of not being men so our opinions don't count.

Male 1 - greasy - I have an amazing new idea, i.e. open category.

Male 2 - dad - women are fine being shoved aside by men.

What is it then guys, as you clearly want to mansplain to us the perfect answer?

I think it's that bit about they have dedicated their busy and important time to let us poor uterus drivers know that we already have all the rights we need: the right to remain silent.

But since the idea that kind of sexist and paternalist head-patting being even remotely acceptable went out with the Carry On films about fifty years ago, it's all a bit late really.

Artichokeleaves · 23/03/2022 10:41

I am quite enjoying the whole idea of women's rights and equalities being a sign of evil right wing extremism Grin

The left is now so far up its own bottom it's suffocating.

PermanentTemporary · 23/03/2022 10:45

I reacted the way I did because I think Ron de Santis is using Emma Weyant for his own political purposes.

PermanentTemporary · 23/03/2022 10:47

Florida abortion law bans abortions after 15 weeks - signed by Ronnie boy.

MalagaNights · 23/03/2022 10:49

Julia Hartley Brewer was on 🔥 this morning pointing out to the labour spokesperson how illogical: a woman is an adult human female and TWAW position is.

She said: so a woman is an adult female and a man.
So nothing then?

He asked her to be calm and respectful she said she wasn't going to be.

Fucking right wingers again 😉

MalagaNights · 23/03/2022 10:52

Ron de Santis opposes gender ideology and he's using the Lia case to illustrate why.

He's also anti abortion.

You may agree with him on one but not the other.

Go on, liberate yourself from your own ideological purity.

334bu · 23/03/2022 11:19

About 2.27.01
Julia Hartley Brewer asking Labour spokesman about transwomen in female sport and what a woman is. I almost felt sorry for him.

Datun · 23/03/2022 11:20

@MalagaNights

Julia Hartley Brewer was on 🔥 this morning pointing out to the labour spokesperson how illogical: a woman is an adult human female and TWAW position is.

She said: so a woman is an adult female and a man.
So nothing then?

He asked her to be calm and respectful she said she wasn't going to be.

Fucking right wingers again 😉

James Murray, Shadow Financial Secretary, saying that the definition of a woman is a woman and a transwoman.

Saying that the category for women's sport should be segregated which includes transwomen. But then the exceptions in the equality act can be used to exclude them. Julia says so they're not women then, and he replies, oh no, they are women.

And kept banging on and fucking on about it being too heated and a sensitive subject. Until Julia says she agrees it's heated and it bloody well should be.

She argues that if a woman is a female and a male, then they're 'nothing' and asks him how he can hold both those thoughts in his head at once - that a woman is male and female.

The list of what the finance secretary to the Treasury is responsible for is long and involved.

Who the fuck do these men think they're kidding??

They know what a woman is, but they utterly refuse to say so, because they have been petrified into barefaced, deceitful misogyny.

Who the hell would trust anyone like that?

Slithering, slimy invertebrates, the lot of them.