Trans athlete wins in female swimming race

[bonfireheart]

www.lbc.co.uk/news/female-swimmers-transgender-lia-thomas-podium-protest-atlanta-result/

Don't know how true this story is but wonder if the public reaction to stuff like this will become more common.

Selective about which athletes you believe I see..... oddly all the ones who support male people's absolute freedom to destroy female sports.

Yeah, well, on past record here, you would. You have no skin in the game. Why wouldn't you?

And I firmly believe that many women, gay or otherwise, will regret their uber liberal stance on this. It will only take one instance of them having a negative experience where a transwoman behaves just like many other males and ignores their voices, their wishes and scares or hurts them.

Ask yourself an honest question @DadJoke. Why are you ignoring the voices of so many women to support an ideology that has hurt so many already?

I believe the athletes, not you. I think it's deeply unpleasant that you would ascribe ulterior motives to them.

And yet, you have just told us what you believe has happened. Has she come out with another supportive statement? If so, please post it up. I have not seen one yet, and I look forward to having that clarity.

Otherwise, your actions are just as bad. At that point, that athlete had not been beaten by Thomas. How do you know that she has now not changed her mind?

@Artichokeleaves

Selective about which athletes you believe I see..... oddly all the ones who support male people's absolute freedom to destroy female sports.

There are some athletes who don't agree with Lia Thomas's inclusion. I've not seen any who competed with her complaining so far.

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them.

Male people not being in female categories IS TREATING THEM EQUALLY.

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them.

Well I'm baffled as to where you got that from, I have not accused anyone of lying about anything, it wasn't a subject that came up in my post.

I've not seen any who competed with her complaining so far.

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them

Look again! There are even a couple of threads about it.

Apologies for the DM links but others are behind a paywall.

THIS is where I get my assertion that many are too frightened of losing their places, sponsorships form. The women themselves.

Oh, an dthe ofrst one has a handy comparison of Will/Lia's times in various events and the quote "Thomas said her pre-transition times are not an accurate gage for her 'current ability’ but admitted that she did not train as often or as hard in her year off as she did when competing on the men's team."

But I suppose that now Will is Lia you can decide for yourself whether or not she is one of the women you will believe!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10310305/Female-competitor-speaks-saying-IMPOSSIBLE-beat-UPenn-transgender-swimmer-Lia-Thomas.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10633529/Virginia-Tech-swimmer-bumped-finals-Lia-Thomas-writes-letter-blasting-NCAA.html

@Artichokeleaves

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them.

Well I'm baffled as to where you got that from, I have not accused anyone of lying about anything, it wasn't a subject that came up in my post.

My apologies, I mixed your comment up with another poster's.

You were suggested that I didn't believe people who opposed Lia Thomas' participation. I believe them, I just don't agree with them.

Which athletes who competed with Lia disagreed with her being in the competition? I wasn't able to find any.

@Artichokeleaves

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them.

Well I'm baffled as to where you got that from, I have not accused anyone of lying about anything, it wasn't a subject that came up in my post.

I know! The only person who has suggested soeone is lying is erm...

I believe the athletes, not you. I think it's deeply unpleasant that you would ascribe ulterior motives to them. from DadJoke!

Or maybe me, when I said it is a lie to say that human beings can change sex?!?!?

@SamphiretheStickerist

You suggested that the athletes who supported her were being supportive to keep their sponsorship - in other words, lying.

Here you are - Reka Gyorgy speaks out about being denied a place in the final by LT taking her place. This is an article from today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8f658262-a934-11ec-b5dd-c16e85f55725?shareToken=21fc83ad91ef3c85a5fd44346057eb4b

And because unlike some, women on here can always provide the receipts:
www.sportbible.com/other/lia-thomas-virginia-student-speak-out-against-trans-swimmer-20220318

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/03/lia-thomas-penn-swimming-teammates/

[quote SamphiretheStickerist]I've not seen any who competed with her complaining so far.

Unlike you, I don't believe they are lying because I disagree with them

Look again! There are even a couple of threads about it.

Apologies for the DM links but others are behind a paywall.

THIS is where I get my assertion that many are too frightened of losing their places, sponsorships form. The women themselves.

Oh, an dthe ofrst one has a handy comparison of Will/Lia's times in various events and the quote "Thomas said her pre-transition times are not an accurate gage for her 'current ability’ but admitted that she did not train as often or as hard in her year off as she did when competing on the men's team."

But I suppose that now Will is Lia you can decide for yourself whether or not she is one of the women you will believe!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10310305/Female-competitor-speaks-saying-IMPOSSIBLE-beat-UPenn-transgender-swimmer-Lia-Thomas.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10633529/Virginia-Tech-swimmer-bumped-finals-Lia-Thomas-writes-letter-blasting-NCAA.html[/quote]
Thank you for the links, but I really don't trust Daily Mail to accurately quote anonymous sources, or even trust that they are real.

The network from which they have pulled the quotes is OutKick - which is owned by Fox News, and run by Rush Limbaugh's replacement, which says Wikipedia is biased and called the US Soccer team "woke". As I've said before, it's an alliance of the socially conservative right and useful gender critical people.

Please consider using mainstream sources.

The times show what I said - that when competing as a man, Lia was in the top 10%, and competiting as a woman (after two years of HRT) she is in the top 10% of women.

The comparison in the article - if Lia had the same times as when she was competing in the men's division she would be world champion is nonsensical, beccause the HRT is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

@DadJoke

The photo wasn't a protest.

The women who came second and third were fully supportive of Lia.

When she competed in the men's category, she was near the top. Her ratings went down to the mid 400s only after she started hormone treatment - exactly what you'd expect. In 2018, she had top 8 finishes in 500, 1000, and 1650-yard freestyle. She was 10 seconds behind the male record, now she is 10 seconds behind the female record.

Lia did not win all her races and setting a pool record is good, but not great. She's not setting national or State records, even. She got thrashed by a bunch of cis women in other races.

As Martina Navratilova said, even if you think the rules are wrong, Lia did not break them or "cheat."

Kate Ledecky's all-time record in this event is almost 10 seconds faster - 4:24.06.

It's possible to have a reasonable discussion that she shouldn't have been grandfathered in to this event, or even look at trans women in women's sport without being transphobic, but I've not seen that happen.

Trans women do not belong in womens sports as they are not women. That's not transphobic, it's a fact. They should never be allowed to compete in womens sports. The biological makeup should determine the category they compete in, and his would be male.

You suggested that the athletes who supported her were being supportive to keep their sponsorship - in other words, lying.

Who cares why they support a male athlete taking the place of a woman in a swimming competition. They are obviously happy, despite being fully aware of the vast advantages a male body has over a female body in swimming, to throw members of their own sex under the bus and therefore their so called " support"should be treated with the contempt that it deserves.

As I acknowledged in that post, there are plenty of other mainstream media sources carrying exactly the same information. Many behind a paywall. Use Google, you will find them.

Unless of course that is, again, just the word of some women, lying!

And you are misinterpreting that table, I suspect!

Do you think that HRT exists to slow women down? Given that Thomas is male it doesn't have the same effect as it would in a woman, is replacing nothing, it is adding a chemical male bodies don't synthesise - for good reason.

You suggested that the athletes who supported her were being supportive to keep their sponsorship - in other words, lying.

Being coerced. Frightened. Bullied. Gaslit.

Ask yourself an honest question @DadJoke. Why are you ignoring the voices of so many women to support an ideology that has hurt so many already?

I suggest you read what gay athelete Erica Sullivan has to say. This is wholehearted support from someone who considers her struggles to be similar.

Can you imagine a bloke writing an article like that? Can you imagine elite male athletes falling over themselves to be inclusive of people who have an advantage over them in their sport? Can you imagine men being so desperate to 'be kind?

"It's possible to have a reasonable discussion that she shouldn't have been grandfathered in to this event, or even look at trans women in women's sport without being transphobic, but I've not seen that happen."

So, everything you've read here and elsewhere about why trans women don't belong in women's sports is transphobic? All of it?

Righto

Here's an idea. If facts are transphobic, we don't care about being transphobic. It's a meaningless term designed to silence. And it's stopped working.

What else you got?

And Erica Sullivan may be happy to give up her own trophies and successes to a male, but what about the female athletes who aren't happy to do that? Is Erica just willing to throw them under the bus, because male needs are simply more important?

Trans women do not belong in womens sports as they are not women. That's not transphobic, it's a fact. They should never be allowed to compete in womens sports. The biological makeup should determine the category they compete in, and his would be male.

Although I have said I am unconvinced that women can't compete against transwomen, I have also seen that there are a lot of passionate people who believe that it's unfair to have transwomen and women in the same category. I thought of a possible solution today.

In terms of respecting trans women who wish to identify and live as women, I think instead of having "female" and "male" categories in sport, there could simply be a "universal" category along with a separate "female" category.

The "universal" category would allow anyone to compete... male, female, disabled, transgender women, transgender men, etc., etc. Given that men generally achieve the best results (regardless of the cause), in practice, this category would likely be dominated by men (which is fine, because this category is effectively replacing the men-only category).

The "women only" category could continue to exist, without any transgender women or transgender men, with the justification being that it promotes female participation in sport.

Oh do sod off with the mansplaining! That, and variations on it, have been mooted squillions of times! Do you think that because we are female we are stupid?

You remain unconvinced of some very basic biology, despite what some very eminent scientists say on the matter, and expect to be taken seriously on anything?

Nope! You have very successfully destroyed any semblance of your own credibility.

Wow greasy you now accept what we have all been saying, 2 sporting categories; open and female only.

Greasy arrived there with his special man logic though, so his opinion is extra special

Wow greasy you now accept what we have all been saying, 2 sporting categories; open and female only.

That's not what I've been reading. All the commentary I've seen on Lia Thomas has argued that she should compete in a "male" category.

Greasy.