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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling on Keir Starmer

315 replies

NancyDrawed · 12/03/2022 14:20

In the Daily Mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10605735/JK-Rowling-slams-Keir-Starmer-Labour-leader-says-trans-women-women.html

'This hill we're all supposed to be dying on is mighty crowded, isn't it? And we all seem very lively, too...'

Love her!

OP posts:
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6
NitroNine · 14/03/2022 10:03

@JustAnotherPoster00

So very wealthy woman refuses to vote Labour, who would tax more of her wealth, because 'trans' whilst the Tory parties policies kill disabled and vulnerable woman through the removal of services and destitution due to the inadequate benefits system, does the holy one suggest who to vote for or is just a case of fuck the poor and lets get on with this right wing moral panic?

Solidarity sisters [eye roll]

It’s not “because trans” it’s “because Labour’s position = trampling all over women - including the vulnerable ones you’ve just chosen to highlight”.

I’m one of the disabled women who didn’t get the £20 benefit uplift during Covid because it was not granted to those of us on legacy benefits. (Despite, of course, disabled people paying an average of £583 a month crip!tax - ie the additional costs incurred due to their disability/disabilities.)

I’m one of the CEV group who got an email towards the end of last year basically saying “we’re ending all shielding support, but you probably ought to keep doing all the stuff as far as possible - I mean, you’ll look mad & we’re focused on ‘back to normal’ meaning ‘ignore it & it will go away’, but you’re still at risk (not that we’re mentioning that to anyone else)” - followed by another, just before Christmas, to say I’m in the lucky 1.5 million who get to try the new drugs if I catch Covid. So atm, in disability activism circles, a special sort of “Shat Upon By Tories” (& that’s leaving aside umpteen other far more identifying issues).

J K Rowling represents my interests better than Labour do. ATM only the Tories (in England) are opposed to self-ID, but they are indeed a disaster for disabled people. (Immediate response to that report was essentially “you are fibbers & we are totes awesomes”; we are now at be grateful damn you while Chloe Smith looks for suitably tall dark winding bannister-free staircases & canisters of cockroaches are stockpiled…)

I wouldn’t feel safe sharing a bay with any male person, however they choose to identify, when in hospital. It is bad enough having other women hear - because they inevitably do, unless you’re in a side room - every last detail of your body’s [mal]functions. I have had the experience of another patient’s male relative staying in the Bay (he was not meant to be there, staff were not aware & patient was not - unlike me, as it happens - desperately unwell). I’m sure he was a perfectly nice man with no thought other than for his female relative (& perhaps his own comfort). Unfortunately, my lizard brain was not on board with this analysis. The stress did bring my blood pressure up towards normal, which was much-needed - but I literally couldn’t speak with terror. My nurse was in to me multiple times for obs & to switch over IV bags, I didn’t need to call them even, but I couldn’t speak. The idea is bad enough in the daytime, from a privacy, dignity & neurodivergency point of view. Dismissing my not wanting to be repeatedly retraumatised night after night as part of a “right-wing moral panic” is, to put it politely, grim**. Not that it should have to be about any of the many women & girls who are survivors of male violence. Nor those women whose faith prohibits their sharing such a space with a male individual - again, however they identify. It is enough that women simply want to keep the single sex spaces that are there to protect them; & to take the utilitarian approach, which here, of course, means vigorously enforcing women’s rights to single sex spaces (“here” would of course apply to female sport, girls’ schools - & the charity commission making Girlguiding either revert to being single sex for young members or give up the “single gender” nonsense & be openly mixed sex).

With their attitude towards women’s rights (ie that they can simply be given away) & single sex spaces (ie that single gender is totally the same thing) Labour have managed to alienate lots of women. I haven’t noticed them being concerned about the actual real hate crimes against disabled people nor the fact disabled people are more at risk of domestic abuse. They have endless energy to spare for decrying non-crime hate “incidents” against trans people (mean tweets & stickers stating scientific facts: THE HORROR!) & keep up the “most vulnerable” lie* but other than Vicky Foxcroft (who is, after all, Shadow Minister for Disabled People) Labour don’t seem interested in disabled people at all. Maybe we need to emphasise the [purple] zebra aspect more? Or just give in, dress them up as unicorns & add glitter?

It is dreadfully tedious, incidentally, to have the highly complex, nuanced, reasoned - & for many people, including posters here personal - issues at stake here dismissed as a “moral panic”. “Right-wing” is risible: there are people across the entire political spectrum who are massively concerned about the erosion of women’s rights & the approach being taken by schools, the NHS & youth organisations like Girlguiding to children & young people who identify as trans. To insist otherwise means that you are either ill-informed; genuinely believe that, for example, the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist Leninist) are right-wing; automatically parrot variations on “TWAW! transphobia! right-wing [ie fascist]! they just want to pee in peace! Be Kind! debunked [youth] suicide statistics!”; think “right-wing” is an inherently bad thing & a dreadful insult, possibly even such that it will cause people to change course (we have posters on here who are Conservatives as well as conservatives & tbh US Dems are about as right-wing as them on lots of things - our centre is very different: not going to go into further international analysis, but posters from elsewhere can advise you I’m sure); or are simply engaging in dishonesty as part of a bad faith argument.

  • if as a class (in the UK) you are more likely to murder than be murdered & 50% of your prison population have committed a sexual offence, it is patently untrue to state you are “the most vulnerable”

yet again: OBVIOUSLY not all trans women are rapists & that should even need saying, but as it’s FWR, it does Confused and crucially, self-ID gives any male person access: open that door & the very worst people WILL walk through it

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 14/03/2022 10:08

@NitroNine Flowers What a good post. I've just seen a tweet about luxury beliefs. This is undoubtedly one. Those keenest on it are the ones who aren't really affected.

DrSbaitso · 14/03/2022 10:09

I have never yet met a male-identified man who was offended by single sex spaces because he thought they meant everyone thinks he, himself, is a sex offender.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/03/2022 10:13

Anyway, as for JKR all I see is a lot of angry men furious that a woman - a woman - has achieved success and fame and, yes, universal respect. How dare she take what their many privilege entitles them to?

Yes, I think this is a factor in it. Many men don't perceive their own unconscious misogyny.

BraveBananaBadge · 14/03/2022 13:10

Thanks for your last post, Nitro.

itsnotdeep · 14/03/2022 14:42

Really good post @NitroNine

And of course it's not just about female spaces. I thought Sarah Ditum said it really well in her article on Saturday

"Because, despite Cooper’s dismissive attitude, the definition of “woman” does matter. It matters for single-sex spaces. It matters for sport. It matters for the language we use to talk about female health. It matters for measuring the income gap, and for monitoring who’s doing more than their fair share of unpaid work in the home. It matters for understanding violence against women. It matters because the law depends on language, and people who pretend to strategic idiocy about the natural and ordinary meanings of words really have no business being lawmakers."

There's a lot of the feminist = transphobic posts on twitter today which just really get on my tits.

Is Keir persuadable? What does he need to hear or think to decide that he's going to support women and just be brave and face his own party?

Igneococcus · 14/03/2022 16:34

There are now 1.4K comments on today's article. It's clearly hitting a nerve.

WellThatsMeScrewed · 14/03/2022 17:05

@NitroNine great post

Rhannion · 14/03/2022 17:08

The voices of disabled women, Muslim women & Jewish women are completely ignored by the political parties. So much for inclusion, Keir is a spineless bastard, among other spineless bastards, including some women. Thank goodness for Rosie Duffield, Jo Cherry & the Baroness.

FrancescaContini · 14/03/2022 17:14

@Rhannion

The voices of disabled women, Muslim women & Jewish women are completely ignored by the political parties. So much for inclusion, Keir is a spineless bastard, among other spineless bastards, including some women. Thank goodness for Rosie Duffield, Jo Cherry & the Baroness.
Hear hear. I ❤️ all those women you name.
spacehardware · 14/03/2022 17:34

"The voices of disabled women, Muslim women & Jewish women are completely ignored by the political parties. So much for inclusion"

Which makes the insistence of TRAs that gender critical feminists are all a bunch of white middle class Karens all the more absurd

FrancescaContini · 14/03/2022 17:45

@spacehardware

"The voices of disabled women, Muslim women & Jewish women are completely ignored by the political parties. So much for inclusion"

Which makes the insistence of TRAs that gender critical feminists are all a bunch of white middle class Karens all the more absurd

Projection
TheMarzipanDildo · 14/03/2022 18:18

“Which makes the insistence of TRAs that gender critical feminists are all a bunch of white middle class Karens all the more absurd“

‘Karen’ is a sexist, ageist term. And you can piss right off with the “you’re all white and middle class” bullshit, it just suggests that other ethnicities and working class women (such as myself) are invisible to you, because there are plenty of them on the GC side.

TheMarzipanDildo · 14/03/2022 18:18

Oh shit sorry I clearly read that wrong

TheMarzipanDildo · 14/03/2022 18:19

spacehardware Blush

spacehardware · 14/03/2022 18:37

Ha ha don't worry!

spacehardware · 14/03/2022 18:38

I really didn't think my comment was that oblique but two people seem to have misread it tho ...

FrancescaContini · 14/03/2022 18:46

@spacehardware

I really didn't think my comment was that oblique but two people seem to have misread it tho ...
I didn’t misread it! My comment on projection was aimed at the second paragraph in your comment - it’s the TRAs who are projecting, not you.

Apols. I should have been clearer.

9toenails · 15/03/2022 14:13

This has been pointed out before, but it maybe repays repetition regarding Starmer's reported claim that 'transwomen are women ... that is actually the law.' ...

Whether or not the intersection between the 2004 [Gender Recognition] Act and the 2010 [Equality] Act gives this result, it does so if at all at best in application to people with a GRC, and moreover in just the etiolated sense that, for instance, it is actually the law that a corporation is a person.

[See, eg, Oxford Business Law Blog ... Corporations are universally treated by the law as ‘legal persons'. ]

'It is actually the law that a [GRC certificated] transwoman is a woman in the same sense as Tesco PLC is a person.' ... does not quite have the same ring to it, does it? Sir Keir knows the score here, both as a lawyer and as a politician. He should be ashamed of his obfuscation and trimming on this issue.

All kudos to JKR for keeping on keeping on.

musicalfrog · 15/03/2022 18:39

This is a great thread.

How lovely would it be if JK started a new party all of her own. What an inspiring leader she would be.

MangyInseam · 15/03/2022 20:28

@DrSbaitso

I have never yet met a male-identified man who was offended by single sex spaces because he thought they meant everyone thinks he, himself, is a sex offender.
Yes, this.
NitroNine · 16/03/2022 00:31

Thank you Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, BraveBananaBadge, itsnotdeep & WellThatsMeScrewed Blush

This whole thing is bad enough as it is but to then have disability dragged in as if any political party have suggested they give even the tiniest of fucks about the disabled population… (“Hurrah for our Paralympians! Look, you got a medal, what do you mean you need better funding?” is somehow still a thing, for example, despite Team GB being ranked 2nd in world for Paralympic Medals vs 4th for Olympic ones*. The influx of cash just announced isn’t to balance investment either. Ugh.)

Hence, I fear, the state of my fields.

  • both sets stats from Wikipedia
JK Rowling on Keir Starmer
Blossomtoes · 16/03/2022 10:46

@musicalfrog

This is a great thread.

How lovely would it be if JK started a new party all of her own. What an inspiring leader she would be.

How utterly brilliant that would be. Count me in.
dotoall · 16/03/2022 11:56

Is Keir persuadable? What does he need to hear or think to decide that he's going to support women and just be brave and face his own party?

Do I care? I am appalled that Keir Starmer deliberately misquoted the Law in his recent pronouncements. The best way to make them see sense is not to vote for them and to support the Tories instead (i.e. hurt them at the ballot box - spoiling your vote isn't as effective and just disenfranchises women as a sex group which is probably what they want). We Women have only had the vote for 100 years after all.
Alas the Conservatives are pretty much the only mainstream party which allows members independent thought on these and many other matters.
As a former LP member I currently have zero intention of ever voting Labour again - as to get this so wrong beggars belief and along with many other things shows that the Labour Party does not learn from past mistakes
e.g. 'Militant Tendency' re-appears as 'Momentum and Corbyn' a couple of decades later. Life's too short to sit through this stuff again and 'keep the (Labour) faith'.
I have a real issue with especially female MPs of any party (Mordaunt, Nandy etc) trying to gaslight women voters with this stuff...that 'transphobic hate group' declaration thing in the Labour Leadership election really was the last straw for many women I expect.

So please use your votes but not for parties which refuse to respect your biological sex rights.

spacehardware · 16/03/2022 12:03

"Is Keir persuadable? What does he need to hear or think to decide that he's going to support women and just be brave and face his own party?"

Tbh I'm not prepared to try and persuade the leader of the Labour Party of my humanity. He can whistle