JK Rowling on Keir Starmer

[NancyDrawed]

In the Daily Mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10605735/JK-Rowling-slams-Keir-Starmer-Labour-leader-says-trans-women-women.html

'This hill we're all supposed to be dying on is mighty crowded, isn't it? And we all seem very lively, too...'

Love her!

@BiggerBoat1 take ten minutes and read the essay someone has helpfully posted below. If you are going to criticism someone for what they have written, it's probably a good idea to read it first.

She's awful and needs to shut up. Plenty of people on here lapping up her bullshit though I see!

well, @BiggerBoat1 at least you came back. And then did the "no haven't read the article..."
Not adding to any discussion.

I don't often comment on things like this because there is so little room for nuance. If someone has taken the time to live as a woman (i'm not sure how you prove that beyond consistently reiterating she/her, adopting a "feminine" name, etc - but there is a process and it does take time) for the required 2 years, and obtains a GRC and lives "as a woman" (whatever that is - i'm not being awkward, i find it impossible to define. I'm AFAB and i identify as a woman, but i am regularly accused of being a Tomboy because i like beer, football, pizza, shooting and powertools but never get called girly because i like rom-coms, high-heels, knitting and cooking)

In short, i am ok with the regulations as they stand and if i have shared spaces with transwomen i personally haven't noticed (not that i stare) and it hasn't adversely impacted my life in any way. I rather suspect that a lot of transwomen are ok with it too (I only know one well, and she's been trans as long as I've known her which is about 25 years)

And i also think that there are very good and valid arguments for sex segregated spaces which i don't need to repeat (except for one woman i once met at my gym who was trying to get our female only entrance reinstated so that she didn't have to get close to strange men for religious reasons. It had been closed due to covid and I'm not sure what the status is now)

Where things get sketchy is the fact that someone can now identify as a man or woman but don't have to take any apparent steps to live the life. So a transwoman can wear men's clothes, have a full beard etc etc but now the difference is, if you encounter this transwoman in a hitherto sex segregated space, you can't say "are you sure you're in the right place?" (and in some cases then be accused of literal violence). There are obviously other ways the new way of things can and will be confusing, but thre is zero discussion of it that i can see.

Why can't we have sex-segregated spaces and gender segregated spaces? After all some of the most marginalised people in the world are women of colour and religion (I am thinking particuly of some types of Judaism and Islam - i am not an expert) Why do they no longer have the option to leave the house if their male relatives think they might encounter a man? I thought we wanted to support our sisters in this? And if TWAW then surely they want to support our sisters too?

There is too much nuance that just gets ignored. And we so rarely get on the topic of transmen.

@BiggerBoat1 My last post on this, but there is so much more to say. Already on this site I've seen women say they are restricting their fluids during the work day so they won't have to use the unisex facilities at work. Risking a UTI!

Already on site, and elsewhere, women are saying they are going out in public less, to prevent needing to use public loos that are unisex.

Risking Urinary Tract Infections from suppressing fluids, to restricting themselves from participating in society - and this is only anglosaxon non-Muslim women. This is having a catastrophic effect on women's participation in society, because women don't feel safe that our safeguards are being torn down and our facilities removed. All because people like yourself want to appease the privileged men, who RETAIN their PENIS AND TESTICLES. All because those like yourself want to be seen to be virtuous and nice and being kind. All the while, you are helping erase women's participation in society. Please, please, please read more threads in this Women's Rights section here, @BigggerBoat1 , and see the full situation and the implications of what you are advocating, for women. It is truly catastrophic. Women now have LESS rights than we did in the 1950s.

“If a transwoman wants to share your space so what? Of course there is a tiny chance she could have a sinister motive but there is a far higher chance that she just wants to live her life the best way she can and may need some legal protection to do that.”

Alongside the reams of evidence that women are at risk in mixed-sex spaces, there is very little evidence that transwomen are at risk in male spaces.

And if TW at the moment don't feel comfortable using men's spaces, isn't that really where the empathy and kindness should be coming from? From men, so that all gender non-conforming males feel welcome and included?

[quote Terfydactyl]But they should be up in arms at this. Transmen were born female and so have first hand experience of women's oppression, so they should be supporting us women instead of being silent and not standing with us

There are a few that do speak up but amazingly they are ignored almost as if they are in fact women and can safely be ignored.

Dunno how that works

If a transwoman wants to share your space so what? Of course there is a tiny chance she could have a sinister motive but there is a far higher chance that she just wants to live her life the best way she can and may need some legal protection to do that.

No thanks. I don't want male people in female only spaces. It's that simple. Why do you feel my feelings are less valid than theirs?

What about women who have not had a history of abuse? Should we put them in the front line? I say no woman should have to be in this position, regardless of her history or religion.

I agree.

@AeroMocha

i.e., If someone is of the mindset of we must be kind, trying to support the underdog, the vulnerable, the person they think is discriminated against and hard done by ,then at least providing examples of actual women who are in that position might make them think further

No. They don't think. They don't care. That's the base issue.

They care more about for example, rapists getting put into women's prisons than the women who are for example, in jail due to not paying their BBC licence fee.

And the BBC who put them there crow on about how we should all pretend we cannot see the penis in the room. They don't give a shiny shit about the vulnerable vaginas in the room.

It is shameful that the punishment for not paying a BBC licence fee is to be locked up with violent rapists. All cheered on by the BBC.

Let's not quibble who deserves most to have privacy and dignity in day to day life. All women and girls do.

Trans people do too, but that's for their own vastly inflating funding groups to sort out. They need to find an alternative solution. The idea of them using the spaces of the opposite sex where privacy and dignity is important doesn't work for women and girls.

Inflated, not inflating!

If a transwoman wants to share your space so what?

An excellent point! Why can't men just accept that there are members of their sex who don't look or behave like the majority and not give them shit for it?

We are in a ridiculous situation where it seems as if it is an insult to transwomen to refer to them as such. Transwomen are transwomen, transmen are transmen. No greater or lesser human beings than women or men, but NOT the same however much they wish it was so.

I accept your point about the spin that is put on these stories, but the fact remains that men and women have separate spaces to try to lessen opportunities for men with bad intentions to access spaces where women are vulnerable.

Official MOJ figures from 2018 show that half of all known transgender prisoners counted in 2017 had at least one previous conviction for sex offences - which is higher than in the general prison population. So either TW are more likely to commit sex offences than men, OR men are pretending to be TW and committing these offences. Which is it, I wonder? Either option just underlines why women want men out of their spaces!

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If a transwoman wants to share your space so what? Of course there is a tiny chance she could have a sinister motive but there is a far higher chance that she just wants to live her life the best way she can and may need some legal protection to do that.

No thanks. I don't want male people in female only spaces. It's that simple. Why do you feel my feelings are less valid than theirs?

the simple answer is if they are in a female space it is not a female space anymore it is unisex.

The equality act sets out that we are allowed single sex prevision where there is a need, such as religions where sexes can not mix, shelters for those with trauma, prisons etc where there is ample evidence that a unisex prevision would increase risk of attack.

the human rights act sets out that people can not be discriminated against due to their sex, religion, opinions etc.

unisex toilets and changing rooms are already known to be dangerous accounting for over 70% of sexual assaults in such areas.

no one asked me to vote on if I wanted female only or indeed male only spaces abolished. where is the democracy?

Exactly, Velvet, they didn't. We need to frame it like that to our elected representatives and the HoL.

@ValkyrieVik

He said: 'I believe in safe spaces for women — I'm very clear about those too. I think the 2010 act, the Equality Act, which does provide for safe spaces for women is right. And therefore I'm very straightforward about this.'

Well, the problem with this statement is that it's a complete non-sequitur isn't it? (Sorry if I'm not using the phrase correctly) but he says he agrees with it - after saying he thinks trans women ARE women.

So he DOESN'T agree with it clearly? He is a lawyer don't forget and knows exactly what he's doing/saying.

He’s saying TW can use women-only spaces. If he didn’t mean that, he shouldn’t have said it. He is not supporting women’s rights.

theres no such thing as a women-only space except those designated by the laws about single sex provision.

thats sex, not gender.

trans women are a subset of males.
trans men are a subset of females.

thus women only spaces under the law are for women and trans men only and vice versa.

So very wealthy woman refuses to vote Labour, who would tax more of her wealth, because 'trans' whilst the Tory parties policies kill disabled and vulnerable woman through the removal of services and destitution due to the inadequate benefits system, does the holy one suggest who to vote for or is just a case of fuck the poor and lets get on with this right wing moral panic?

Solidarity sisters [eye roll]

I'm the opposite of a wealthy woman. Lifelong Labour voter (1987 first vote) until Corbyn. I won't vote Labour.

Hahahaha - JKR literally demoted herself from billionaire status because she donated so much to charity. Unlike many vastly wealthy ppl she resides in & pays UK tax levels

But do carry on trying your desperate smear attempts

It is not womens fault that Labour are such utter fuckwits on this issue

However I do really object to the Daily Mail type crap that everyone is to be doubted and feared. The sort of nonsense that makes people feel all refugees are scroungers, that all teenagers are wasters who only want screen time or the EU only wanted to screw us by taking our money and imposing restrictions on us. This is a dangerous view of the world.

The situation here is more like somebody French, living in France, employed in France throughout their career, saying they identify as English because they like roast beef, and then trying to claim unemployment benefit in the UK.

It's fine to exclude people from services which were never set up for them. It's not discriminatory.

@JustAnotherPoster00

So very wealthy woman refuses to vote Labour, who would tax more of her wealth, because 'trans' whilst the Tory parties policies kill disabled and vulnerable woman through the removal of services and destitution due to the inadequate benefits system, does the holy one suggest who to vote for or is just a case of fuck the poor and lets get on with this right wing moral panic?

Solidarity sisters [eye roll]

You haven't got a clue what she does with her money, have you?

There's this amazing pattern of JKR's detractors not actually knowing bare basic facts before opining about them. Like the brainiac earlier on this thread who jabbered a bit about Rowling's bullshit and then admitted they hadn't read what she'd written.

I blame Twitter, I really do. We've got an entire demographic of very loud people who can't handle anything that can't be said in 250 characters.

JKR used to be one of those women @JustAnotherPoster00

All conveniently forgotten. Her massive charitable donations swept under the carpet.

She’d have been idolised 15 years ago.

@JustAnotherPoster00

So very wealthy woman refuses to vote Labour, who would tax more of her wealth, because 'trans' whilst the Tory parties policies kill disabled and vulnerable woman through the removal of services and destitution due to the inadequate benefits system, does the holy one suggest who to vote for or is just a case of fuck the poor and lets get on with this right wing moral panic?

Solidarity sisters [eye roll]

Really very ignorant (eye roll too)

Trans women are not women. They are a sub-set of men.

@JustAnotherPoster00

So very wealthy woman refuses to vote Labour, who would tax more of her wealth, because 'trans' whilst the Tory parties policies kill disabled and vulnerable woman through the removal of services and destitution due to the inadequate benefits system, does the holy one suggest who to vote for or is just a case of fuck the poor and lets get on with this right wing moral panic?

Solidarity sisters [eye roll]

I really don't think this is who JKR is. She has been a very vocal About supporter and friend of Gordon Brown and his wife, I think and she is very generous in her charity donations.

You look at that and all you see is a "wealthy woman"? She's earned every penny of it, even if so.