The Cass Review- Interim Report

[rogdmum]

The Cass Review Interim Report has been released. 112 pages long and it’s such a bloody relief to read common sense.

cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

There’s so much in it, but emphasis on taking a holistic approach with a great chart on page 57 showing the complex presentations in and complex pathways.

And social transitioning has been recognised as an active intervention!

“Social transition – this may not
be thought of as an intervention or treatment, because it is not something
that happens within health services. However, it is important to view it as an active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of their psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition. Whatever position one takes, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act, and better information is needed about outcomes.” Pages 62/63

So much in it. So much. And there’s more to come as the review continues to work on the issues.

@rogdmum

I may well be wrong, but I view at “doing nothing” as ignoring the distress your child is going through and just carrying on as usual. I would agree that this is not a neutral act. These children are in varying forms of distress and need help/support of some form, though not necessarily via affirmation/transition. Ie by doing nothing you are not following the principles of the report which is to fully explore the possible causes of distress.

Could be completely wrong here, though!

I think so, because number 2 option there was to provide:

Counselling, social or psychological interventions – these may be offered before, instead of, or alongside physical interventions. Again, they should be viewed as active interventions which require robust evaluation in their own right.. p 63

[quote Awkwardy]The Cunning Little Vixenkiller has a different take...

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1501884753309483010?s=20&t=XCQA2DceuQ-K6hP2EjgWqg[/quote]
Central concern seems to be who makes the decisions, the transchild/woman (again, no mention of natal females or ROGD in his analysis) or the medical professional. Absolutely ignores the interim Report's points about other diagnoses and social pressure which may impact/influence/destroy the patient's capacity to make the decisions.

So, more scaremongering /No Debate from Kimonoboy, then.

Sorry, Helleofabore, my rubbish slow typing means I crossposted with your much better analysis..

So, more scaremongering /No Debate from Kimonoboy, then.

Something scared him into protecting his tweets though.... I'd love to know what.

His tweets are all there, he has not deleted them, and I can access them from my twitter account, maybe you are blocked?

I'm not on Twitter, and provided I don't click on anything I can access it?

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

So, more scaremongering /No Debate from Kimonoboy, then.

Something scared him into protecting his tweets though.... I'd love to know what.

Big, Angry Vixens no doubt ...

@Helleofabore

His tweets are all there, he has not deleted them, and I can access them from my twitter account, maybe you are blocked?

Ah ok. I’m definitely blocked but thought someone said he’d actually hidden them.

The initial responses by trans activists were mixed, with positives coming from the idea that having many more gender clinics was being proposed. However, the consensus is shifting to "it's a betrayal of trans kids, Cass is secretly gender critical".

Cass has published an Opinion piece in the BMJ:

www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o629

Some clinicians also reported feeling unable to undertake the process of assessment and differential diagnosis that would be the norm in their clinical practice because they perceived that there is an expectation of an unquestioning affirmative approach.

Let's hope that puts paid to the nonsense that 'curing children of gender dysphoria' is conversion therapy.

Thank you for posting this here. I just hope that all those within the system who have been raising safeguarding concerns for years will know their fight is finally exposing the whole scandal. And that those who are still in thrall to the ideology take a serious look at themselves and the damage they have done.

C+P of 2 of the fox batterer's tweets from that very long thread.

If you are a young trans woman, absent puberty blockers, your voice will drop and you will develop an adam's apple and this will make it very, very difficult for you to 'pass' as what you feel to be your gender in later life.

And, in a society that is transphobic, you know that the changes that are happening to you will impede your whole life and existence. Put bluntly, they will mean a lifetime of people discriminating against you and sneering at you.

He's a little ray of sunshine, isn't he?

I'm not sure why someone with his privileges of power and influence doesn't use them to fight alongside feminists to change attitudes to 'gender', rather than encouraging young people to take strong drugs to change their healthy bodies.

(Though I do have a theory why that might be...)

Cass writes with powerful clarity in that BMJ piece.

Review of gender identity services for children and young people
BMJ 2022; 376 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o629 (Published 10 March 2022)
Cite this as: BMJ 2022;376:o629

My interim report sets out my initial findings and advice. Here I set out my more specific reflections for clinical colleagues.7

Children and young people with gender dysphoria must receive the same standards of care as every other child or young person accessing NHS services

Primary and secondary care clinicians have reported to the Review that they are nervous about seeing children and young people with gender-related distress because of lack of evidence and guidance about appropriate management, and the toxicity of the societal debates.

Some clinicians also reported feeling unable to undertake the process of assessment and differential diagnosis that would be the norm in their clinical practice because they perceived that there is an expectation of an unquestioning affirmative approach. They felt that this was at odds with a more open and holistic evaluation of the factors underpinning the young person’s presentation, and consideration of the full range of possible support and treatment options.

As a result, a majority refer directly to GIDS, where the waiting list now exceeds 2 1/2 years. This means that these patients are not receiving the same level of care and support as other similarly distressed young people, despite being at high risk of mental health and safeguarding issues.

I'm inclining more to my previous interpretation of "not neutral" as above (of course I would).

If you are a young trans woman, absent puberty blockers, your voice will drop and you will develop an adam's apple and this will make it very, very difficult for you to 'pass' as what you feel to be your gender in later life.

This is a good working example for Oliver Burkeman's tweet today:

Repeating my suggestion that everyone with a position on sex and gender issues tries restating that position without recourse to the word "gender". You ought to be able to; I think it would clear up a ton of confusion; and it might be very informative to see who couldn't do it.

And, in a society that is transphobic, you know that the changes that are happening to you will impede your whole life and existence. Put bluntly, they will mean a lifetime of people discriminating against you and sneering at you.

And people wonder why Dr Cass said: We have heard that some young people learn through peers and social media what they should and should not say to therapy staff in order to access hormone treatment; for example, that they are advised not to admit to previous abuse or trauma, or uncertainty about their sexual orientation.

Because of tweets like this that absolutely would put the fear into any young person or their parents that they simply must have puberty blockers.

Because of tweets like this that absolutely would put the fear into any young person or their parents that they simply must have puberty blockers.

This is something I've seen general consistency on in comments from GC transwomen, like Debbie Hayton, Rose of Dawn, Fionne Orlander.

They deny that the UK has any significant transphobia problem, and say that they have almost no bad experiences in real life - basically no-one pays them any attention. They say this portrayal is complete bullshit. (The bad experiences they do get are online, from TRAs...)

And, in a society that is transphobic, you know that the changes that are happening to you will impede your whole life and existence. Put bluntly, they will mean a lifetime of people discriminating against you and sneering at you.

So many words that could be swapped for "transphobic" there…But misogyny, disability discrimination, homophobia etc. will never ascend to the sacred caste.

He's completely ignoring any of the co-morbid issues that these children have. All of it. From start to finish.

He wants to move heaven and earth to treat the symptom, and has no interest, whatsoever, in understanding the reasons for the condition.

If the condition is treated, the symptoms will improve. He doesn't appear to want the symptoms to improve.

I wonder what drives that?

@Datun

He's completely ignoring any of the co-morbid issues that these children have. All of it. From start to finish.

He wants to move heaven and earth to treat the symptom, and has no interest, whatsoever, in understanding the reasons for the condition.

If the condition is treated, the symptoms will improve. He doesn't appear to want the symptoms to improve.

I wonder what drives that?

Yes. The fear to acknowledge, to talk about, to consider certain aspects and factors is always interesting. Something about listening and engaging with those parts harms the chances of what is wanted.

Rather like listening to women's voices harms the chances of unconditionally getting what is wanted. Ackcnowledging the complexities, the incompatabilities, the many shades of grey and the need for solutions that work for everyone - always leads to this. Anger and emotive anecdotes that essentially say none of this stuff should matter. The end justifies the means, the end (and as referenced, it's always about males) justifies the collateral damage in process.

The responses are going to be interesting. It is going to become increasingly apparent if it is the case that evidence and objectivity is painted as being 'transphobic'.

If you are a young trans woman, absent puberty blockers, your voice will drop and you will develop an adam's apple and this will make it very, very difficult for you to 'pass' as what you feel to be your gender in later life.

The whole logic fail in a nutshell. If sex and gender are separate then why would making yourself look like a female sexed person be necessary for you to live as your gender?

A trans woman has always been a woman just as much as I am (I'm a female human) and yet somehow in order to be a "woman" she must make her body resemble mine as much as possible. Surely the implication of that is that I am a more "real" woman than she is?

This is the paradox I can never get my head around.

[quote Awkwardy]The Cunning Little Vixenkiller has a different take...

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1501884753309483010?s=20&t=XCQA2DceuQ-K6hP2EjgWqg[/quote]
I hope someone is screen grabbing/saving his tweets.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Cass writes with powerful clarity in that BMJ piece.

Review of gender identity services for children and young people
BMJ 2022; 376 doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o629 (Published 10 March 2022)
Cite this as: BMJ 2022;376:o629

My interim report sets out my initial findings and advice. Here I set out my more specific reflections for clinical colleagues.7

Children and young people with gender dysphoria must receive the same standards of care as every other child or young person accessing NHS services

Primary and secondary care clinicians have reported to the Review that they are nervous about seeing children and young people with gender-related distress because of lack of evidence and guidance about appropriate management, and the toxicity of the societal debates.

Some clinicians also reported feeling unable to undertake the process of assessment and differential diagnosis that would be the norm in their clinical practice because they perceived that there is an expectation of an unquestioning affirmative approach. They felt that this was at odds with a more open and holistic evaluation of the factors underpinning the young person’s presentation, and consideration of the full range of possible support and treatment options.

As a result, a majority refer directly to GIDS, where the waiting list now exceeds 2 1/2 years. This means that these patients are not receiving the same level of care and support as other similarly distressed young people, despite being at high risk of mental health and safeguarding issues.

I'm inclining more to my previous interpretation of "not neutral" as above (of course I would).

My initial feeling is that it's a very skilfully written report.

I think trans activists will have a hard time explaining why it's wrong.

The accompanying documents on the website are worth reading as well, especially for the comments. E.g. this about the role of schools:

issue:

“ During the second facilitated workshop, it became clear that a key element of the pathway, which has not been addressed in the wider conversation amongst professionals, is the role of the education system. Some participants said that often CYP begin to express questions about gender identity in schools, and that their views and beliefs about their gender identity can be either negatively affected or reinforced by their peers or adults in the institutions themselves. This demonstrates the need for appropriate training to professionals working in schools and better joint working to ensure holistic support for the CYP.”

“The bit that’s missing is the fact that a lot of CYP have effectively already had a diagnosis made before they reach [the] medical profession – they’ve made it themselves, or it’s been made by school or another education professional. Theassessmentpathwayhasstartedbeforetheyreach CAMHS”

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/REPORT-Cass-Review-professional-panel-FINAL.pdf

*“The bit that’s missing is the fact that a lot of CYP have effectively already had a diagnosis made before they reach [the] medical profession – they’ve made it themselves, or it’s been made by school or another education professional. Theassessmentpathwayhasstartedbeforetheyreach CAMHS”

And some of them will have been 'diagnosed' by their parents as toddlers.