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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kemi Badenoch nails it

213 replies

teawamutu · 04/03/2022 08:28

From Glinner's update - this is brilliant:
grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/no-means-no?r=ahiyi&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

OP posts:
Datun · 04/03/2022 12:42

Will Quince: The No. 1 priority of any school or anyone in society has to be the protection and safeguarding of children above anything else. In my view, that is a reasonable position for anyone to take."

The normal TRA reaction to that is oh my God you're saying all trans people are predators.

Any intense discussion of safeguarding gets targeted, on here too, and people get deleted.

It will be interesting whether or not politicians feign ignorance over what safeguarding means a la TRA rhetoric.

Someone with a safeguarding brief talking about safeguarding feels like the end game to me.

ATeamAmy · 04/03/2022 12:48

It will be interesting whether or not politicians feign ignorance over what safeguarding means a la TRA rhetoric.

Do watch the end of the Select Committee meeting after the CN question (It's around 10 more minutes and gold). This is exactly the point KB goes on to make: that the way CN framed her question was a deliberate attempt to make KB look like a transphobe (and designed to whip up hatred against her from TRAs), rather than someone concerned about safeguarding. CN's face at the end is a picture.

Needmoresleep · 04/03/2022 13:33

If the Committee needs a Tory Chair and is elected, I assume it was on the back of Labour and LibDem support. She won't be making friends in her own party especially Liz, Kemi and Jackie.

Toseland · 04/03/2022 13:43

Thanks for the link @IsitM

Masdintle · 04/03/2022 14:00

ATeamAmy thank you so much for encouraging us to watch to the end of the piece. Well worth waiting for KB demonstrating the sort of rhetoric that leads to abuse and pile ons about trans issues by quoting back to CN the way CN chose to frame her question.

Who is the blonde-haired t*rf woman? (Grin) She was refreshingly direct about the need to question whether the GRA is still needed given the change in the social landscape since 2004.

ATeamAmy · 04/03/2022 14:15

You're welcome @Masdintle. I think the blonde woman is Jackie Doyle-Price, MP.

Masdintle · 04/03/2022 14:17

Ah thank you. I've heard of her!

NancyDrawed · 04/03/2022 14:30

JD-P in 2020, what a shame the benches were almost empty.

Having watched more of the Select Committee video, it is clear from the way she speaks to her that Caroline Nokes does not like Kemi Badenoch AT ALL. Go Kemi, you absolute star!

jellyfrizz · 04/03/2022 14:32

@Rodedooda

How are you defining trans?

This is a keeper.

The predictable answer to this is ‘anyone who identifies as trans’.
Chersfrozenface · 04/03/2022 15:03

The next question then needs to be: define the verb "identify" in this context.

Datun · 04/03/2022 15:18

@ATeamAmy

It will be interesting whether or not politicians feign ignorance over what safeguarding means a la TRA rhetoric.

Do watch the end of the Select Committee meeting after the CN question (It's around 10 more minutes and gold). This is exactly the point KB goes on to make: that the way CN framed her question was a deliberate attempt to make KB look like a transphobe (and designed to whip up hatred against her from TRAs), rather than someone concerned about safeguarding. CN's face at the end is a picture.

Yes, thanks for the clip, it was very interesting indeed.

Kemi sounds so sensible and rational asking for open debate without people being intimidated into not talking. And she talks about Keira Bell, and Baroness Faulkner. So we know who is being intimidated and who's doing it

She has the 'true trans' position. Where there are some men who are deserving of certain dispensation and others who are not.

(That's not my position, partly because I don't think that access to women should be based on what men think, but what women think.)

But would be interesting to see exactly what sorts of access she will grant, and on what basis.

Because however it sounds in theory, I can't see how it's ever going to work in practice. It might have done 40 years ago, but transactivists have blown it.

I'd also like to see some in picking of what she means by trans children.

It's interesting that she talks about it in the context of conversion therapy and clinicians. It would appear she sees it very much as a medical issue, not a civil rights one.

I would, however, say that she appears fairly up to speed about the various strands, issues, bullying, and misrepresentation going on.

I'm so glad I watched it.

Abitofalark · 04/03/2022 15:18

@Needmoresleep

If the Committee needs a Tory Chair and is elected, I assume it was on the back of Labour and LibDem support. She won't be making friends in her own party especially Liz, Kemi and Jackie.
It's not news that there's a strong element of senior Conservatives, either MPs, in government, in House of Lords or in Conservative head office who are Stonewall leaning or in some cases, positively horizontal. That influences what goes on and we've seen outright confrontation with Liz Truss and simmering tensions which continue between the Committee and the equality and education ministers and the general equalities office. Party numbers, factions and manoeuvrings in all the parties play their part in who's nominated and who's elected.
Helleofabore · 04/03/2022 15:25

Nokes comes off as being not really informed. That she expected Badenoch to comment on areas that are not in Kemi's remit. And just kept going. She really comes across as thinking she is 'clever' but is not really reflecting that in reality.

Helleofabore · 04/03/2022 15:42

In fact, the way Nokes tried to frame that question and then close the meeting on that 'quote' came across as very snarky and smug. Really smug!

That Kemi Badenoch then interrupted and went back. It is interesting to to see the push back and the blunt honesty that she expressed that she felt that it was deliberate ploy.

Nokes is really slippery.

Helleofabore · 04/03/2022 15:56

That link, Thank you so much for posting it, is really enlightening to watch. The conversation after the attempt at a 'gotcha' was quite remarkable.

And I was yelling at the screen when Nokes asked 'how can these discussions actually be had'.

Fuck me! She cannot admit that her style is one of the most toxic I have seen! She is simply so deeply entrenched in believing she is on the ''right side' that she cannot accept that her contribution.

By the time, Kemi finished saying well accept that the discussion has to actually be allowed to happen and that some well known people seem to get more time and recognition than the other side, Nokes could barely move her lips.

VestofAbsurdity · 04/03/2022 15:59

Thanks for the link @IsitM, I see what you mean. I particularly enjoyed Kemi Badenoch pointing out to Caroline Noakes the difference in the way people who gave evidence were treated.

Signalbox · 04/03/2022 16:05

Noakes is so condescending!

Signalbox · 04/03/2022 16:17

Jackie Doyle Price asking KB whether they should just ditch the GRA altogether. Classic!

DomesticatedZombie · 04/03/2022 16:21

I'm watching the clip of Nokes grilling Badenoch now. Seems awfy hostile for a discussion. You'd think two members of the same govt/party would be a bit more collegial.

Helleofabore · 04/03/2022 16:27

I think that video show true colours of the people involved.

teawamutu · 04/03/2022 16:36

@Helleofabore

That link, Thank you so much for posting it, is really enlightening to watch. The conversation after the attempt at a 'gotcha' was quite remarkable.

And I was yelling at the screen when Nokes asked 'how can these discussions actually be had'.

Fuck me! She cannot admit that her style is one of the most toxic I have seen! She is simply so deeply entrenched in believing she is on the ''right side' that she cannot accept that her contribution.

By the time, Kemi finished saying well accept that the discussion has to actually be allowed to happen and that some well known people seem to get more time and recognition than the other side, Nokes could barely move her lips.

Absolutely this.

Noakes started out smug and ended with a face like a smacked arse.

OP posts:
DomesticatedZombie · 04/03/2022 16:49

Ooh, is that JDP asking if we actually need the GRA at all anymore? Good on her.

DomesticatedZombie · 04/03/2022 16:54

Holy moly. Nokes talks over Badenoch, and then when Badenoch responds in kind sharply tells her 'don't talk over me'. What an arrogant woman.

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/0e356ee5-a5b6-41a8-9be7-beac83ec376c?in=15:44:11

DomesticatedZombie · 04/03/2022 16:55

If she wants to have a constructive debate she could maybe not butt in and talk over people while accusing others of doing so.

Hedgehog123 · 04/03/2022 17:05

Wow well done to Kemi for keeping her cool- I was quite surprised how unpleasant and hostile Caroline was to her given they’re in the same party.

I wonder if when Kemi was talking about supporting and defending people on both sides of the argument (and had mentioned cross party) she was thinking about Rosie Duffield and the lack of support she’s received from within her own party?