Exulansic has reduced following?

[Linearpark]

Are people still following her now she's migrated to Odyssey? Her numbers are way down but you'd think everyone knew where to find her by now. Is there something about the Odyssey platform that is off-putting that I should know about. eg has it got unsavoury content or is it sound and just small and alternative? Or do people subscribe to channels that they aren't really interested in? Just wondered.

Thank you for your lovely peace offering, Shirt and no hard feelings at all!

@WanderinWomb Genspect is not a children’s charity. This has been brought up a few times here and it’s just not true.
I’m a parent of a trans identifying child. There are very few spaces where we feel heard and understood and Genspect is one of them.
I’m struggling to understand the backlash against them.
Genspect put themselves out there when we can’t.They openly say what parents like me are afraid to discuss in public. Parents like me are afraid to voice our concerns because we are desperate to maintain a connection with our children.
Genspect offers generalised advice to parents and schools etc., they do not provide individual therapy to families or to children.
Without organisations like Genspect our voices and concerns would not be heard. I have read the rebuttal and tbh am just disappointed that they have even felt the need to publish it in the first place. I’m really questioning the motives of those that have gone after them.

Bearinatree it's so good to hear from the actual parents involved and helped by Genspect.

I'm just an observer but I too am perplexed by this weird attack and focus of them as the greatest evil in the world of gender.

Keep speaking out or being an 'upstander' as Stella might say. I'm trying too. I'm looking forward to their Detrans Awareness Webinar on Saturday.

Then Genspect have an image problem.
The front face presents itself as children's advocacy , via parents, and therapists are most visible members.
The rebuttal has been terrible PR, cringey an unproffesional.
I know they have been under attack by fans of a couple of YouTubers (who I don't pay much attention to) who may in fact be "unhinged" but that doesn't mean that's appropriate word to use in public statement. It reminds me of the shouts of "How dare you?" hundreds of us heard directed at a young woman with safguarding concerns in a different organisation.

Too many huge egos is not a good combo.

@WanderinWomb

Then Genspect have an image problem. The front face presents itself as children's advocacy , via parents, and therapists are most visible members. The rebuttal has been terrible PR, cringey an unproffesional. I know they have been under attack by fans of a couple of YouTubers (who I don't pay much attention to) who may in fact be "unhinged" but that doesn't mean that's appropriate word to use in public statement. It reminds me of the shouts of "How dare you?" hundreds of us heard directed at a young woman with safguarding concerns in a different organisation.

Too many huge egos is not a good combo.

"The front face presents itself as children's advocacy , via parents"

No, it does not.

Across the whole site the Title and Subtitle on every page read:

Genspect
A voice for parents with gender-questioning kids

On the Home Page, the text at the top of the body of the page reads:

Genspect is an international alliance of parent and professional groups whose aim is to advocate for parents of gender-questioning children and young people. Parents are concerned that their kids are not receiving appropriate treatment and support; many do not feel free to speak out about their concerns.

We represent 18 different organizations in 16 different countries. We’re not just speaking for a few. We speak for thousands.

"therapists are most visible members"

I am not sure what you mean by "visible".

This the "Our Team" Page, 10 "members" with precisely one "therapist" listed.

Obviously "Anonymous Parent, The World" stands for many members of the Team - so there are more than 10 in total:

genspect.org/team/

Stella O’Malley.
Psychotherapist
Ireland

Pamela Buffone
Parent
Canada

Kathleen H. Dooley
Attorney
USA

Claire Graham
SEND Teacher & Intersex Advocate
UK

Helena Kerschner
Detransitioner
USA

Julia Mason, MD
Pediatrician
USA

Avi Ring

Guest Professor, Uni Oslo.

(GENID)

Sweden & Norway

Marit Rønstad
Art Teacher
(GENID)
Norway

Sinéad Watson

Detransitioner

UK

The Anonymous Parent
The World

There are also 18 "Advisors" listed from around the world.

I should add that I have no connection with Genspect.

I just think it helps if everyone is working with accurate information.

That doesnt contradict what I wrote at all. I was writing about the image Gespect is giving. You kicking off with people here is not helping that image BTW.

I didn't want to name names was trying to be vague on purpose, as people on both sides this are defensive and highly inflamed.
But since you went there , here in the UK asking several friends, Stella O'Malley is very much the public face of the organisation.
It may or not be intentional but that is the image the public are getting.

I have not got time to waste typing out the names and credentials of all the Advisors listed on the Genspect Team page:

genspect.org/team/

I would ask that people please visit the page to see exactly who is being accused of being part of a "massive paedophile network".

Then ask, whose interests does it serve that these individuals and their organisations are defamed in this way?

WanderinWomb - "It reminds me of the shouts of "How dare you?" hundreds of us heard directed at a young woman with safeguarding concerns in a different organisation."

I don't know who you are referring to but what is happening here reminds me of the dangers illustrated in the story of The Boy Who Cried "Wolf!"

@WanderinWomb

That doesnt contradict what I wrote at all. I was writing about the image Gespect is giving. You kicking off with people here is not helping that image BTW.

I didn't want to name names was trying to be vague on purpose, as people on both sides this are defensive and highly inflamed.
But since you went there , here in the UK asking several friends, Stella O'Malley is very much the public face of the organisation.
It may or not be intentional but that is the image the public are getting.

"You kicking off with people here is not helping that image BTW."

Sharing accurate information is "kicking off"?

I will leave others to judge who is "kicking off".

You claimed that Genspect was creating a problem for itself by projecting an image of itself as an organisation advocating for children via their parents.

I have demonstrated that Genspect is doing no such thing. It states explicitly that it advocates for parents.

Parents, by definition, have children.

That does not mean that an organisation which advocates for parents therefore must therefore, by extension, actually be advocating for their children.

That is just illogical - and untrue.

I don’t understand why Stella is a problem for you? She has stuck her head above that parapet for us. I’m so grateful that she has. Why would her involvement be a problem? I don’t understand why you want to smear her or Genspect? OK, I understand you don’t like the rebuttal, they are not a huge organisation and others might have handled it differently -but by banging on about the tone or the words that they have used you are inadvertently, perhaps, implying that they have something to be ashamed of. It’s not right, parents like me need support and I feel like you are trashing that support for some reason I just don’t understand.

Just for clarity, that remark about Cantor was made on the other thread, and the thread has since been deleted.

Others can correct me if there is more to this than I am aware of but what I have seen so far wrt to Cantor in relation to Genspect, it boils down to:

Someone involved with Genspect made reference to or relied on Detransitioner stats published by James Cantor.

Note: As have many others, including some who are now producing this as evidence that everyone involved with Genspect is "paedophile adjacent" and/or are "paedophile enablers" and/or "part of a massive paedophile network".

Cantor's significance and relevance to this field is not his contentious views on paedophilia but his contributions to understanding the nature and prevalence of detransition, desistance and transition regret.

There are several published articles, some peer reviewed, by James Cantor about Detransitioners, Desisters and Transition Regret. I do not know which one(s) have led to the bizarre "six degrees of separation - guilt by association" phenomenon that has led to appalling accusations that parents and professionals associated with Genspect are therefore paedophiles and/or "paedophile adjacent" and/or "paedophile enablers".

Incidentally, Cantor was being vilified by TRAs for spotlighting Detransitioners, Desisters and Transition Regret long before his controversial tweets about paedophilia.

Cantor's articles categorised as "Transgender" on his blog "Sexology Today" (there are also Categories related to Pedophilia):

www.sexologytoday.org/search/label/Transgender

Example of a peer-reviewed article:

"Transgender and Gender Diverse Children and Adolescents: Fact-Checking of AAP Policy"
14 Dec 2019
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0092623X.2019.1698481?journalCode=usmt20

Examples of articles citing Cantor's research on Detransition/Transition Regret (there are LOADS of these BTW):

"DO CHILDREN AND TEENS WITH SERIOUS GENDER DYSPHORIA EVER OUTGROW GENDER DYSPHORIA? YES"
www.genderhq.org/trans-children-gender-dysphoria-desistance-gay

"The Ranks of Gender Detransitioners Are Growing. We Need to Understand Why"
Lisa Marchiano, 2 Jan 2020
quillette.com/2020/01/02/the-ranks-of-gender-detransitioners-are-growing-we-need-to-understand-why/

"A Response to the Uproar Over My Piece, "The Detransitioners"
Katie Herzog • Jul 3, 2017
www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/07/03/25262759/a-response-to-the-uproar-over-my-piece-the-detransitioners

I am amazed about Cantor's tweet itself, though?

On the substantive issue of paedophilia, it would be naive to think that paedophiles trying to normalise their abuse or wish to abuse children (and their enablers/supporters) aren't always with us. They seem to try to attach themselves to other organisations. An imprimatur/cover of respectability, if you will.

This whole paedophilia de-stigmatising thing seems to be fairly suspect, in my opinion. I know the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) openly operated under cover of the National Council for Civil Liberties (NCCL) in the UK. And, only just recently (8th March 2022) a former Dutch Paedophile group 'Martijn' had chappies convicted of still associating, contrary to being banned in 2014 from doing so.

Just look up maandelange celstraf voor oud leden pedofielenvereniging martijn (translation: month-long prison sentence for former members of the pedophile association Martijn). It is in nu.nl (binnenland).

Two former members of the banned pedophile association Martijn were sentenced on Tuesday by the court in Rotterdam to prison terms of four and six months. The duo continued the club for years, after the Supreme Court declared it illegal in 2014.
According to the judges, "pedo activists" Marthijn U. (49) and Norbert de J. (43) from Hengelo "glorified sexual contact between adults and children" and "downplayed its harmful consequences" by several websites, a video channel and a mailing list on to put. Children were portrayed as "sexual beings".

In doing so, the two did exactly the same as the banned association Martijn did, according to the judges. "They have flouted the court verdict." The sentence for U. was two months higher, because he played a more prominent role. During the trial against both, the Public Prosecution Service demanded the maximum prison sentence of one year.

The verdict in the trial against the third suspect, Nelson M. (27) from Lelystad, has been postponed.

During the lawsuit, M. initially set the defense aside. The suspect was angry because he could not follow the process via Skype. M. fled to Mexico and has applied for political asylum in that country. The organization Free a Girl has started a petition to prevent this. The petition on the Free a Girl website has already been signed more than eleven thousand times.

Martijn (like PIE with NCCL) had attached itself to a rights organisation. Again they had some familiar lines like adult-child sex not always being damaging.

MARTIJN was a Dutch association that advocated the societal acceptance of pedophilia and legalization of sexual relationships between adults and children. Also, MARTIJN was expelled from the International Lesbian and Gay Association in 1994.

These paedophiles and paedophile supporters always seem quite determined to misuse rights organisations, and don't give a hoot about tainting the good name of an org. for same sex attracted people. The adults in 1994 could see their game and were obvious not happy as they threw them out. Martijn made an appeal to the ECHR in 2015 (after being banned in the Netherlands in 2014) about their right for freedom of association, and it was rejected. I doubt paedophiles have stopped trying to attach themselves to groups and organisations. Trying to infiltrate, influence and push their agenda.

I wonder if the ECHR would make that same judgement today? Will the day come when the poor 'p's' would be looked upon as just misunderstood. Maybe with supporters in rights groups battling for them and their 'rights'. In this new upside down world.

When you're helping bring down the most successful voice for parents, why wouldn't you expect to be called a TRA? It's a natural assumption to make. Nearly all of Karen Davis's videos attack not only GC people but successful GC people. If all you do is bring down the GC people who are making a difference, aren't you a TRA by definition?

Unless I'm mistaken about how vicious they are (and I've been told they are very vicious), TRAs will be watching this thread. Do you want to give them ammunition? Why do all this in public?

It makes me feel like there are some people who would sooner parents WEREN'T represented, so they can just chat about how AGPs are awful. We need to get laws changed, and it really, really matters. People like Karen Davis do nothing.

Completely valid points, Cailleach1.

However, there is no evidence that I am aware of that these statements have any relevance to the current discussion about Genspect:

"They seem to try to attach themselves to other organisations. An imprimatur/cover of respectability, if you will."

"I doubt paedophiles have stopped trying to attach themselves to groups and organisations. Trying to infiltrate, influence and push their agenda."

"Will the day come when the poor 'p's' would be looked upon as just misunderstood. Maybe with supporters in rights groups battling for them and their 'rights'."

This is exactly the sort of leap of logic, from referencing Cantor's stats on detransition to suggesting that an organisation is part of a paedophile network, that has been used to smear Genspect and several other advocacy organisations that are broadly "gender critical".

Seriously, is every organisation, researcher or journalist who has relied on Cantor's research into Detransition to be considered "suspect"?

If so, there will be a very long list and, again, who benefits? Who benefits from making people scared to cite what scant research and stats are available on Detransition? Who benefits from linking detransition, detransitioners, their advocacy organisations and supporters to paedophilia?

Who benefits from smearing parents and organisations that advocate for parents with this subliminal messaging?

All on zero evidence of any connection.

If anyone is actually aware of any infiltration by paedophiles into these groups they need to come up with some evidence - and stop this "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" defamatory concern trolling.

BTW there is an existing thread dedicated to James Cantor here if anyone is interested:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3699723-dr-james-cantor-anti-transing-children-pro-paedophilia-as-valid-sexuality

I think you should take your own advice, Myshirt. I won't be directed as to what I find relevant. This is not exclusively a thread about Genspect. Indeed, taking your own advice, you should feel free to start one devoted specifically to that topic. However, posters are free to post in any direction they are moved to do. It was originally (and I think the ship has sailed away from the title and opening post) which was about tt Exulansic, gettr, youtube, following people on platforms etc.

A comment was made about Cantor. So that tweet about including the P and the inclusion of paedophilia being about rights is very much part of the issues being raised on the thread. I shall raise any point I find important or feel strongly about. Without asking any random poster's permission, thanks.

Now, get back into your own lane as just another poster on this thread rather than acting like it your own personal sub stack .

As the Genspect rebuttal says, it was Cantor who unearthed the crucial statistic that 80% of children with gender dysphoria desist. By this logic everyone who quotes that stat now has links with paedophilia. Genspect have no links with Cantor - they merely retweeted him a couple of times. This is a very weird thread

I'm new to mumsnet so I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this but I look at the thread above and quite honestly it looks like an agenda. Do cailleach1 and wanderinwomb have some vendetta against Stella O'Malley? Is there history I'm missing?

@Cailleach1

I think you should take your own advice, Myshirt. I won't be directed as to what I find relevant. This is not exclusively a thread about Genspect. Indeed, taking your own advice, you should feel free to start one devoted specifically to that topic. However, posters are free to post in any direction they are moved to do. It was originally (and I think the ship has sailed away from the title and opening post) which was about tt Exulansic, gettr, youtube, following people on platforms etc.

A comment was made about Cantor. So that tweet about including the P and the inclusion of paedophilia being about rights is very much part of the issues being raised on the thread. I shall raise any point I find important or feel strongly about. Without asking any random poster's permission, thanks.

Now, get back into your own lane as just another poster on this thread rather than acting like it your own personal sub stack .

I see I have touched a nerve. Concern-trolling and subliminal messaging not working out how you anticipated?

If you are going to go in for that sort of thing, expect to be called out.

"that tweet about including the P and the inclusion of paedophilia being about rights is very much part of the issues being raised on the thread."

Is it really? In what way?

"I shall raise any point I find important or feel strongly about. Without asking any random poster's permission, thanks.

Now, get back into your own lane as just another poster on this thread rather than acting like it your own personal sub stack."

Quite the bully, aren't you?

I shall continue to feel free to reply to comments as I see fit, within the Talk Guidelines of course.

@gcrhino

I'm new to mumsnet so I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this but I look at the thread above and quite honestly it looks like an agenda. Do cailleach1 and wanderinwomb have some vendetta against Stella O'Malley? Is there history I'm missing?

I am sure you are allowed to ask that.

It is a very good question too.

@264MyShirt

Is this the groups that has some sort of association with Cantor?

@ScreamingMeMe
"King Critical and Rubble of Empires'

Thanks for the heads up. I just discovered Mr Menno and very much like the vid I saw - lighthearted by packed a much needed punch!

Oh dear. I think I shall have to take Michelle Obama's advice about reacting to posters who aim so low.

I see I have certainly touched on many more nerves having looked up (and posting here) what was a very problematic tweet by Cantor; on foot of curiosity about a comment made by another poster. And it being quite fresh as the very recent Netherlands 'Martijn' convictions show that we still need to be vigilant about such things.

Maybe the objection is that it isn't about the eponymous TT Exulansic (of the thread title) and so is deviated from TT Exulansic and fora/channels use as being the subject matter of this thread. That must be it.

However, I am of course giving the most generous and charitable assumption to the intent behind the personal barbs. For whatever reasons are behind that. And, attempts by other randoms to instruct people what or where they are allowed to post. For whatever reasons are behind that. Mind you, on a thread where there is already quite a bit of invective by posters about people don't agree with; this is calling for a bit of suspended disbelief.

Cailleach1 - Errrm . . . How many people are operating this account??

The style is so different from post to post and this last one looks like it has been put through Google Translate to produce some vague approximation of English.