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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Exulansic has reduced following?

306 replies

Linearpark · 01/03/2022 11:54

Are people still following her now she's migrated to Odyssey? Her numbers are way down but you'd think everyone knew where to find her by now. Is there something about the Odyssey platform that is off-putting that I should know about. eg has it got unsavoury content or is it sound and just small and alternative? Or do people subscribe to channels that they aren't really interested in? Just wondered.

OP posts:
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17
sessell · 10/03/2022 12:19

@amy. They are a tiny organisation, I doubt they can afford specialist legal or PR support. The rebuttal is thorough, many of the rumours were outlandish.

ATeamAmy · 10/03/2022 12:19

@ATeamAmy they explain that point in their rebuttal - parents need to retain confidentiality.

No, they don't explain anything I asked about Angus Fox in the statement. I'm not questioning the need for parental anonymity. I am questioning how an anonymous journalist, who says himself he has no skin in the game and described himself as a "tourist" (in his Quilette series), fits into a medical/therapeutic/advisory organisation. This should not be a hard question to answer in a transparent organisation.

Solidarityovercharity · 10/03/2022 12:23

But that's the whole point? It's not a transparent organisation and how could it be?? It's fairly obvious to me that what he said was just a front. It's clear that he does have skin in the game and that's why he has retained his anonymity.

Anomalocaris · 10/03/2022 12:55

Transgender Trend, Safe Schools Alliance and Standing for Women don't provide therapeutic services, so not sure why they'd need a safeguarding policy.

ATeamAmy · 10/03/2022 13:04

[quote sessell]@amy. They are a tiny organisation, I doubt they can afford specialist legal or PR support. The rebuttal is thorough, many of the rumours were outlandish. [/quote]
Sarah Phillimore, shit hot barrister and all-round good egg, is one of their advisors. I'm sure she would have been able to help them tone it down and get a better message across without it costing an arm or a leg or anything at all. Their press team includes someone described as a "communications specialist", part of a 3 person press team. I'm not saying they have no right to be thoroughly pissed off with what's been going on, but the statement is really, really unprofessional.

PatsArrow · 10/03/2022 13:16

Why don't people take them up on the offer if emailing specific concerns? It's no hood just throwing out stuff over and over on SM.

The way I understand it, Genspect is not just therapeutic for parents. It also (hopefully/intends to) act as a go-to place for press and MSM to find parents willing to speak out about their experiences and their thoughts on GD. Angus Fox has said that it was repeatedly said by the media that (paraphrasing) - "No-one knows how to hid these personal stories/parents who are unhappy". Genspect helps with this to try and shift the needle and the narrative.
This is where Angus Fox will have some expertise as a journalist. I don't believe he's ever said he's any kind of therapist.

But again, just ASK THEM privately. Otherwise it just goes on and on and rounds in ever widening circles.

PatsArrow · 10/03/2022 13:17

Sorry for crap typing. Trying to do so many things.

"Hid parents" meant to say "find parents"

Solidarityovercharity · 10/03/2022 13:19

Genspect doesn't provide any therapeutic services either @Anomalocaris. Perhaps you should check the website before you comment?

Solidarityovercharity · 10/03/2022 13:30

@ATeamAmy why don't you offer them your services? If you're so appalled by their work and you want them to be better why do you denigrate them publicly and yet not even criticise other organisations who offer similar services?
Not one of these organisations offer therapeutic services and yet you choose to ignore the fact that the other organisations don't have ANY safeguarding policies.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of them need them
I'm bothered because I saw the horrible attacks Genspect received as a result of those self-proclaimed safeguarding experts who puffed up with self-righteous rage and eager to publicly assassinate good people's reputations

Anomalocaris · 10/03/2022 13:34

@Solidarityovercharity

Genspect doesn't provide any therapeutic services either *@Anomalocaris*. Perhaps you should check the website before you comment?
They are providing parental advocacy:

genspect.org/advocacy/

I would position that within the broad realm of a therapeutic service.

Solidarityovercharity · 10/03/2022 13:42

Well you'd be wrong @Anomalocaris, they provide advocacy for parents when speaking to schools about names, pronouns etc. Sheesh, talk about negative nitpicking. Their advocacy is about law and policies, it's not about therapy and it is a sorely needed service. It would be great if the other organisations provided this too.

Anomalocaris · 10/03/2022 14:08

I'm not sure why you are being so defensive, Solidarity, I was just commenting on why one org may need a safeguarding policy and others don't.

And please don't @ me, I'm already on the thread.

264MyShirt · 10/03/2022 14:38

@ATeamAmy

I also agree that it's a terrible statement. I was a solicitor for many years, and this is the sort of well intentioned but completely misguided document, produced by a client without first seeking legal and public relations guidance, that would make my heart sink.
That is fair comment. I thought it was a bit too "chatty" and informal at times but am not in any way qualified to judge it in terms of legal aspects.

Suggesting Sarah Phillimore be asked to advise the authors is a good idea.

She might not want to comment here but this bat-signal might get her attention to these posts: @spero

"Angus Fox" has been mentioned a few times. As far as I am aware he is not and has never been an "Investigative Journalist":

"Angus Fox is an academic who became embedded within a confidential support group for parents of gender-questioning young men - becoming an accidental journalist in the process"

genspect.org/team/

"About Angus Fox"

In 2020, I started working with parents of trans-identifying kids — parents who think their kids are making a big mistake. I quickly realized that there was a huge amount of medical malpractice going on, and that gay people like me would be blamed for it. So I started trying to do my bit to tell their stories. Since then, many of them have become my friends.

Parents feel lost, misunderstood, vilified and hopeless. They deserve a voice. I want to provide a space where that voice can be heard.

Why I write anonymously

Like many gender critical people, I write behind a pseudonym. This is because I am an academic working in an unrelated field, and I don’t want to lose future research or work opportunities. Also, I don’t want to have to deal with the hate mail that inevitably comes to those who express dissent on this topic — nor do I want my family to have to deal with it. Only one side in this debate issues death threats, and it isn’t mine.

Why it’s my business

‘Gender transition’ is being pushed on young people under the guise of ‘LGBT rights’. That means that people like me will inevitably be implicated when the fallout from these procedures hits. I’m also pretty certain that I would have followed this pathway myself, as someone who experienced dysphoric feelings in teenage — and that it would have been a disaster.

How you can help

No matter whether or not you have kids, you can help parents and families who are going through this. Keep an open mind; listen to what they have to say; and stand up for their right to make autonomous decisions as parents.

angusfox.substack.com/about

LangClegsInSpace - "A statement was necessary but this one is dreadful. It's incredibly defensive, filled with words like 'unhinged' and 'crazy'. I understand why but they really need to rise above this and remain professional."

I don't think it is "dreadful" or "incredibly defensive" but I do agree otherwise.

"mixed in with the outlandish are some genuine issues which they are failing to address because they see it as all part of the same big Karen plot."

I wouldn't claim to be aware of all the issues raised by Karen or anyone else. The statement deals with the ones that I am aware of. If there are other genuine issues that they seem to be ducking then I hope someone brings these to their attention.

"Why can't they just add a bit to the video description and the end of the video to point out that behaviour like this in a very young child can be a sign of sexual abuse?"

Good suggestion!

"Why on earth would they insist that any concerns are raised privately in response to things they have said (or in this case, failed to say) publicly?"

My interpretation was not that they had a preference for "private vs public" but that contact by email would mean that they would actually be aware of issues raised and could respond to them.

As I mentioned in my previous post, allegations are being made across multiple social media platforms in multiple formats by numerous people.

It would be a practical impossibility to be aware of what is being asked or alleged by whom, where and in what format (video on several platforms, text on several platforms, etc.) including in private and pay-walled spaces.

If people want answers then it makes sense for them to contact Genspect directly. Then for Genspect to either direct them to material already published, to reply privately and/or to add to the information on their website in order to clarify any further queries.

They could spend 24/7 replying publicly to the comments and questions that they are aware of on public platforms and still be accused of failing to respond or answer questions that are raised elsewhere.

"Why would I email Stella after having heard her on hatpinwoman's twitter space, where it became very clear that she does not understand safeguarding?

They seem to treat all discussion of safeguarding as allegations of abuse. They seem to treat anyone saying anything as part of the same gang of bullies.

This is disappointing to hear but it does sound as if things have improved:

I have seen their safeguarding policy. They had none until the beginning of January and the current version is much improved on the one they had up until at least early February"

"So that's one good thing that has come out of this clusterfuck - they are at least developing better policy. I'm particularly pleased to see a commitment to appropriate training in there."

Something else that might help would be to expand on the "Guidance to Parent Support Group Meetings" re the "vetting process" for new members:

genspect.org/guidance-for-parent-support-meetings/

Others have already pointed out that Genspect does not work with children. However, they are providing Guidance for parents and for those who do work with children and vulnerable adults, so amplifying the Safeguarding message with practical advice or relevant links would be a useful service.

So I need to take my own advice and send them an email!

gcrhino · 10/03/2022 16:33

I come to this as the mother of a child who went through hell with gender dysphoria (and put me through two hells). I can't understand why people can't see that this undermining of Genspect ONLY benefits trans rights. Lots of people told us they would help us, in meetings I attended. And sometimes they did, they put up billboards and made videos on Youtube. But Genspect has launched the parents POV into the media in a way that no-one else did. Isn't that the most important thing? Why so much focus on the nitty gritty? Surely the big thing for parents who are trying to survive this, some of us without spousal support, is fighting this ideology.

Lineaxxxxcc · 10/03/2022 17:51

I agree with everything @LangClegsInSpace said. I think we need a new thread though.

Lineaxxxxcc · 10/03/2022 18:20

Please continue on new dedicated Genspect rebuttal thread unless specifically referring to Exulansic.

264MyShirt · 10/03/2022 19:16

Genspect thread here:

Genspect rebuttal and reaction to [Ex thread cont.]
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4501765-Genspect-rebuttal-and-reaction-to-Ex-thread-cont

Lineaxxxxcc · 10/03/2022 20:01

Thank you 264MyShirt

264MyShirt · 10/03/2022 20:47

Lineaxxxxcc - and thank you for nothing Angry

  • For diverting this conversation
  • for leaving all the Previous Posts on this subject "orphaned" in this thread
  • for starting a new thread with a highly contentious OP, without a link to the Rebuttal Statement by Genspect
  • for basically hijacking the conversation - because it was not going the way you liked?

I was in two minds about whether to ask Mumsnet to delete your new thread but did not know how long that might take to be actioned so, if they did, then it might create even more confusion.

That said, it does leave this thread clear to discuss the conduct of Sierra Weir/Exulansic who is, allegedly, now the subject of a complaint to the American Speech, Language & Hearing Association (ASHA) for breaches of professional ethics.

At the same time, Karen Davis says that she has taken out defamation suits against various people. I can't say for sure who as new names appear to be being added to the roster. It says a lot for the level of insanity this has reached that she is also saying that she intends taking out adverts in her local press.

I mention this because Sierra is contributing approvingly to discussions about this and also that it is difficult, if not impossible, to disentangle the influence of Karen and Sierra on their mutual supporters, who are across social media pursuing issues that Sierra and Karen have raised about several different organisations and individuals.

ScreamingMeMe · 10/03/2022 22:10

Crikey. They both seem to be acting like some of the more...intemperate...TRAs.

WanderinWomb · 10/03/2022 22:33

I cannot agree with LGinspace more.

People on all sides of this drama have been carefully and politely spoon-fed safeguarding and PR advice, phrased delicately and even cagily so as not to cause offence. They've have been ignored , blocked, insulted and called TRA plants and trolls.

People really really want to help but it's clear that some think they are too intelligent to take advice.
That Genspect rebuttal is embarrassing in its unprofessionalism . It's really disappointing. There are clearly some huge egos lashing out all over the place. I dont expect much from YouTubers, but I certainly do from children's charity representatives.

WanderinWomb · 10/03/2022 22:52

Now I see this.
Apologies for posting in the wrong thread.

Lineaxxxxcc · 10/03/2022 23:30

:47264MyShirt

Lineaxxxxcc- and thank you for nothing

I'm very sorry Shirt, but I wasn't meaning to divert the conversation, I mean I didn't even say anything much.

I can appreciate that I have in fact left all the Previous Posts on this subject "orphaned" in this thread. I was wondering how I could cut and paste them actually, maybe I'll try. I just came back to the thread and could see that it had gone completely off topic. I was amazed that one of you hadn't started a new thread. If someone had wanted to look for a thread on the topic of "Genspect rebuttal" however would they have known where to find it? I thought to myself, well they might just start a new thread and all these posts would be ignored. That's why I started a new one and indicated it was a continuation thread (I expertly i'll admit).

I didn't consider linking to the rebuttal thread, as I indicated it was a continuation, but yes I should have even so and sorry I didn't.

I don't think I high-backed the conversation as I didn't really say anything just agreed with Langcleg in space. To be honest I hadn't read most of it at that point as was rushing out but have now. And I thought it was very interesting and pretty balanced. I would like it to continue and completely disagree with the statement that "it was not going the way you liked?". If that was the case wouldn't I have interjected earlier to support Langcleginspace? Tbh I very much want genspect to succeed and wish they'd deal with this to make themselves squeakyclean.

I was in two minds about whether to ask Mumsnet to delete your new thread but did not know how long that might take to be actioned so, if they did, then it might create even more confusion.

Lineaxxxxcc · 10/03/2022 23:34

Sorry I didn't mean to include that last paragraph. I agree with it though, I don't know how to sort out the mess I've made. Any ideas welcomed.

264MyShirt · 11/03/2022 02:02

Lineaxxxxcc - I apologise for being so shirty with you.

"If someone had wanted to look for a thread on the topic of "Genspect rebuttal" however would they have known where to find it? I thought to myself, well they might just start a new thread and all these posts would be ignored. That's why I started a new one and indicated it was a continuation thread (I expertly i'll admit)."

You are quite right - and there is no perfectly tidy way that anyone could have dealt with this.

The way it was handled and your OP in the new thread made me think that it was done to deliberately disrupt and hijack the conversation.

I am sorry that the way I responded turns out to have been unjustified and that I have upset you.

Peace offering! Wine Cake