YogabirthUK cancel event after Freddy McConnell flounce

[WinterTrees]

Saw this on twitter this morning but can't see a thread here.

Milli Hill was supposed to be appearing at an event run by YogabirthUK entitled 'Gender and Birth: A space to listen.' Milli was lined up to appear alongside Freddy McConnell and another speaker, but Freddy pulled out after the event was announced, on the grounds that Freddy could not appear 'alongside/after/in the same remote vicinity' as a birth specialist who recognises biological sex.

Full tantrum available here. twitter.com/millihill/status/1498060037536714752

The YogabirthUK Instagram link is worth looking at too. Lots of support for Milli Hill and regret about the cancellation of an event that was literally supposed to be providing 'space to listen', but the TRA input is interesting and very telling. (Spoiler alert: TRA claims MH is a disgusting transphobe for being exclusionary to transwomen when - crucially - Freddy is a transman. And excluded Freddyself.)

I am having one of those days when my patience with all this feels very thin. Very thin indeed.

@Supersee

Freddy is something else. Just been sucked into a twitter feed about how removing his nipples prior to deciding to give birth is not his fault, but the fault of 'cos-normative' people. Last time I checked both males and females have nipples.

And at the time, couldn't conceive the idea of parenthood, however is for medical transitioning of children.

I saw this statement quoted on another thread a couple of days ago and I’m still reeling over it.

Apparently in 2014* Freddy McConnell wasn’t aware of 'feeding options' for babies because nobody had ever explained them. The purpose and importance of nipples had not been made clear to FM and FM had essentially been 'denied the knowledge' needed. Damn those evil cos-normative people!

• In 2014 Freddy McConnell was 28 years old.

why have your nipples removed?

I think I read that a mastectomy is easier (so quicker and cheaper?) to perform if the patient doesn't retain the nipples. Some transmen have nipples tattooed on, I believe.

Yes. Covered here. Grim reading if you've not seen this before. lilymaynard.com/wielding-the-sidhbh-gallagher/

Men have nipples. So you don’t look male, you look like Action Man. Are they charged extra?

I also note that Freddy McConnell was not only 28 in 2014 and therefore might reasonably have been expected to have acquired the usual basic information about the human body, but had also completed secondary education, studied at university, graduated with a degree and embarked on additional studies in the US.

But hey, the cos-normative people never explained about nipples so 🤷‍♀️

If you look on Instagram FM does seem to have nipples - is it a case of they put them back on but they aren’t connected to anything as the breasts have been removed? Unless they are just tattooed on.

[quote AgathaMystery]@vivariumvivariumsvivaria I'm so disgusted with health care. That baby could have died, or been poorly from all the complications of prematurity - because a series of midwives and obstetricians are not brave or bright enough to say "no".

I don’t disagree with your comment overall but honestly the days of midwives & obstetricians doing pre-conceptual counselling are kind of over.

The only time I see pregnant trans men is when they are well & truly pregnant. It’s too late by then.[/quote]
Yes, that's fair. However, there are more people involved than midwives and obstetricians.

Who is giving the trans men advice about managing their cross sex hormones in order to restore menstruation? Is this something a gender clinic does? Or is the community advising itself - which seems to be the case locally as the majority of trans men here are supplementing their prescription by buying testosterone on the "grey market".

If FM was 28 when transitioned surgically, presumably was on hormones before that, but let's go with what we know. That is twenty years earlier than when a normal menopause should happen. So, if we addd those twenty years to the uterus as a "side effect" of testosterone then FM has a uterus of more than 48.

IUGR, failed induction, emergency c/section, tiny baby? Quelle surprise.

There is a need for research. I'm not saying that these people should have babies, I'm saying, if the FDA lists testosterone is a class X teratogen and even low dose testosterone HRT stays in the body for 2-3 weeks...then maybe it's wise to consider that people who are on long term testosterone need advice prior to conceiving.

I'm worried that there is a lack of information required for informed consent which is impacting the whole population of trans men and NB female people who take testosterone. And that it's not going to be them who lives with the consequences of that.

Re: nipples, it also seems like another way that capacity for sexual pleasure is taken away. I mean, I suppose by 28 you should have a fair idea of which erogenous zones do it for you, but the teens signing up to this are much less likely to have explored this (rightly so). And sexual awakening can unfold over decades, it's not as if you lose your virginity and immediately know your lifelong preferences.

@sacredfeminina

What did we all expect? Social media is the most ego building tool I could ever imagine.

So here we have the first wave of adults, who as children grew up on social media. Of course they are going to be totally egotistical.

Its just why are we not better holding space, holding society together whilst this generation works their shit out. The elders need to keep it together.

People need to take responsibility for allowing children to have social media and phones. How many parents benefitted from the peace and quiet of having their kids absorbed on their phones.

Now they have grown up unhinged and self obsessed, and we are blaming them?

Adults are supposed to guide children and help them become part of society. It feels like a whole generation of parents failed in doing that.

This is an excellent point.

That IS an excellent point.
Something has gone terribly wrong with society in the last 10 years (maybe longer).
So many young people are SO self obsessed, as if they are the stars of their own life story, as if everyone is hanging on their every word and action.
They are never told NO, or "that's not possible".

Egotistical.
Believe they can have every want and need catered for.

It's no surprise that the rise of people identifying as "other" coincides with the advent of social media and the internet. I often wonder if we'd be in this mess if the internet had not been invented. How much of it is just done to appear cool and unique, one of the eight zillion genders etc.

Such people have always existed. The unintended consequence of the internet has making it possible for them to find each other and to attract a far larger audience.

A generation ago one self-obsessed person might make the lives of their immediate family and colleagues a misery, but most of them wouldn't be known farther than that. Now they easily can become well known, if they post obsessively and without filter, on social media, blog etc etc.

As the mother of two young adults (late 20s), I hasten to say they're not all like this.

*made, not making. Sigh.

There seems to be no concern whatsoever for the health and wellbeing of the developing fetus/newborn/child. When most women are very careful about not smoking, not consuming alcohol, cheese and a myriad of other things, a certain minority are unconcerned about hormones and other potentially harmful substances, not just pre and during pregnancy but with drugs to stimulate milk production.

Regarding Freddy’s mum’s crowdfunder, I admit that I’m surprised to see it still open and taking the occasional donation. It still reads: “If Freddy is unable to travel to Sweden for any reason, all money raised will be refunded.”

I did actually read someone in Sweden posting "trans women are not women". Will Freddie be appearing in the same remote vicinity as them, or will Freddie stick to their principles and not travel? It's a conundrum, to be sure.

Yes. The case study published several years ago now about the baby fed by its transwoman parent made it clear that this was only possible because the parent took a cocktail of drugs and the possible effects on the baby are very unclear.

www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0044
www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/

What a joke of a human FM is.

@HelloCrocus

Re: nipples, it also seems like another way that capacity for sexual pleasure is taken away. I mean, I suppose by 28 you should have a fair idea of which erogenous zones do it for you, but the teens signing up to this are much less likely to have explored this (rightly so). And sexual awakening can unfold over decades, it's not as if you lose your virginity and immediately know your lifelong preferences.

Often thought about this. I would struggle with sexual function if I lost my nipples.

On a similar vein, these female children "coming out" as asexual, demisomethings or whatever, who aren't taught adequately about female pleasure and in all likelihood, if straight, have yet to meet a partner capable of good sex.

Hardly progressive is it, when girls continue to have very little sexual agency.

[quote Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]Yes. The case study published several years ago now about the baby fed by its transwoman parent made it clear that this was only possible because the parent took a cocktail of drugs and the possible effects on the baby are very unclear.

www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2017.0044
www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/[/quote]
On Youtube - there is footage of a trans couple (biological woman who gave birth is the "father", man who presumably fathered the child is the "mother").
Trans woman attempts to feed the child and wonders why they are not producing milk.
Ends up admitting that they will "supplement" with formula.
Well no, you're not "supplementing" anything. Supplementation implies that there is some form of basic nutrition happening.
All that was happening is that the poor hungry baby has a male nipple in its mouth. Latching on means nothing, a baby will latch onto a finger or anything stuck in its mouth.

Meanwhile, biological mother cannot feed child because they have had their healthy breasts removed.

In a lot of these cases it does seem that the baby is a prop to provide validation, or to prove some kind of a point. I've never seen anyone wonder what the implications of exogenous hormones, milk stimulation drugs etc are on the child. .

Did the transwoman expect a round of applause because they could breastfeed for a whole 6 weeks?

@RVN123

The idea of putting a (hungry) baby to a male nipple makes me Very cruel. It’s all about validating the adult’s “identity”.

The male individual who managed, after a cocktail of drugs, to squeeze a bit of liquid out for their baby confessed to a frisson of excitement during the experience.

I seem to remember it was in a rather coy, 'yes shucks, you got me' kind of way.

Is Freddy pregnant now or is this a hypothetical baby? From watching the seahorse documentary I’d assume that the first pregnancy was fairly straightforward because he had only recently transitioned so his manwomb manovaries still worked because the hormones hadn’t affected them so much.

Has had a second child.

Thanks.