Email from teacher: Child has come out as non binary

[GoingtoGlasgow]

As per title.

Received email from form tutor (Yr 7 if it matters) saying DC has spoke to them in confidence saying they are non binary. They would like permission from me to tell the subject teachers to use the pronouns they/them.

How do I respond to this?

Before the email (1 day before) got A message with a gif from DC saying 'I'm non binary'. Followed by a text 'do you accept me?'

I replied of course. Bloody love DC why would I not

Just feel they have entered puberty and don't identify with their biological sex.

Have discussed with them that I feel non binary from a gender point of view... don't do anything stereotypically girl like long hair, dresses, make up, prosecco. But don't want to change my pronouns because I definitely feel like the sex I was born with: difficult pregnancies, heavy periods and being seen as 'a woman with kids' when going for promotion.

They think humans can change sex. 'They have surgery'. I said in 1000 years when they find the person's bones that had a fake penis implanted on them and their breasts removed, will they identify that person as make or female. They said they woman. But still humans can change sex according to them.

By the way I'm very much the type of parent that won't tell the child what to do because it the children will do the opposite/dig their heels in. It's worked with my other children.

Get independent counselling. Avoid stonewall links.

Get to the root of things. Why does he think he’s non binary? Does it boil down to gender stereotypes, because there’s a myth about boys having to be HEman and girls having to be Barbie.

Present factual information with proper links about not being able to physically change sex.

Studies show many reasons for some to identify out of their body - awkward puberty, sexual abuse, autism, trauma, peer or parental pressure when individuals are different.

I can get my child counselling. Though, not sure this is necessary. They're fairly well balanced, in my opinion. But, what should I reply to the teacher, about asking me if it's okay that all the subject teachers use they/them pronouns.

Separately ask the school and child to outline what has been covered in lessons. Check for indoctrination.

Explain to the school that youre concerned that he doesn’t quite understand that he won’t physically be able to change sex with periods, giving birth.

Agree to a change of pronouns in year 8 after counselling has been undertaken first. He will need a deeper internal analysis before taking that step and this will require an independent professional. A counsellor. Changing pronouns now could potentially add a layer of peer pressure and complication which may make things more difficult to work through.

Ask the school how many children and ask your child how many peers are doing the same.

They think humans can change sex but they haven't expressed a desire to change sex. They're happy with their given name. They haven't said (to me) that they want their bodily functions to change. Just that they want their pronouns to be they/them to feel respected even if they can't hear themselves being talked about.

For what it's worth I don't think human beings can change sex. I think gender is a social construct and think it's a good thing that they don't want to be constructed by gender. I think it's a bad thing that they can think others can change their sex. Pro nouns, I have mixed feelings on. I'm leaning to everyone's should they/them. But appreciate this will never happen.

I don't think the form tutor should have emailed you at all. It's nothing to do with you and is entirely your child's decision. They should be asking your child, not you, if it's ok to inform teachers.

@ThiagoSilvasToe

I don't think the form tutor should have emailed you at all. It's nothing to do with you and is entirely your child's decision. They should be asking your child, not you, if it's ok to inform teachers.

Of course it’s to do with the parent . Pronouns and social transition are not a benign step; in the current climate it’s the first step to medical transition. Parents absolutely have to be involved.

And it’s also not the child’s decision as to how others refer to that child when the child isn’t present, which is what a 3rd person pronoun like they or them does. I would educate the child about this: that they may feel “non-binary” but they have no say in compelling others how they speak. It’s an important life lesson, something a good number of adults need to learn at the moment. I would tell the child they can ask their friends to do whatever they want, but a 12 year old doesn’t get to control the language of grown ups.

I would also tell the child that it’s important that the school remain very clear on what sex the child is - I’ll wager female - so they can appropriately safeguard and protect the child in the correct environment. And I would tell the teacher “thank you for bringing this to my attention. Please continue to refer to my child as the sex that he/she is in your own time, and continue to be aware of such sensitivity around this.”

And finally I would block TikTok, Discord, YouTube etc.

I find this has been a successful strategy. The idea that 12/13 year olds get to order adults around is nonsense. Put some boundaries in place. It’s perfectly possible to say “I don’t care how you identify, you do you, I love you, but you don’t get to tell me or your teachers what to do and how to speak.”

Ask the school how many children and ask your child how many peers are doing the same.

According to my 14 year old (S3 in Scotland) "all the girls in my year are non-binary or trans" and when I asked his 17 year old sister (S6) who is a far better observer than ds, she said about half of the girls in that year are calling themselves trans or non-binary, hang out in a group during breaks (all with what she calls "girl mullets"). There are four girls claiming to be trans in her year but that is a much smaller number of kids in the final year.
I would ask my child what they think 'non-binary" means to them as a start.

I would thank the school for asking you and say you're taking a short period to think about it and request no official announcement from them in that time.

Every single teacher who glibly tells children "they can get surgery" needs to be forced to read this. And it's mostly about mastectomies and barely touches on the horrors of phalloplasty.

lilymaynard.com/wielding-the-sidhbh-gallagher/

I would say no to pronouns/name as it's social transtion which has psychological impact.
I've said no to my yr7. I could not love and value her any more than I do.
I know full well why she is feeling discord with her physical body.
Look at Genspect - good webinar on rigs on their conferences page; Transgender Trend. Bayswater Support Group for parents are very good.
Also Safe Schools Alliance.
I'll come back again once I have more time.

*ROGD webinar

@FannyCann, Bloody hell! I've just read that article, and I am truly shocked. I can't find the words. How glib, get rid of your tits and all will be well!

I've stolen this from another thread currently on AIBU from a poster @Mangyinseam with a similar experience OP:
We sought counseling for mainly anxiety. I was a bit worried about this because I was afraid of the psychologist taking an affirmation approach but we did attempt to find someone unlikely to do that.

We didn't really entertain the requests for name changes/pronoun changes or the request for a binder. For a while it was hugely contentious. But we were very clear that it was not possible to change sex; that it was important to try and make peace with our own body and that it is very normal to feel uncomfortable with it and changing social roles during puberty; that binders were not healthy physically or a healthy way to deal with our bodies; that name changing was something that could be done legally in adulthood if desired but not sooner; and that things like pronouns didn't really change who you are or how people think about you, but they were an imposition on others.

Part of my reasoning on this is that I think it is normal and probably necessary for teens to struggle with who they are and also their physicality - identity struggles are normal and so are feelings of disassociation and disembodiment. Part of coming to terms with that involves integrating the things we are born with - our sex, our family, our physical body, and coming to inhabit these facets of reality even if sometimes they aren't what we would choose. Pulling out those things as if they are things we choose will actually impede kid's ability to build a solid sense of self, it becomes like trying to keep water in a sieve.

My child seems to have largely come out of the other side of this now though it was intense for a while. One other element was somewhat reducing her contact with people pushing it, both IRL and online

Lots of other thoughtful posts on the thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4492618-Pre-teen-daughter-suddenly-identifying-as-non-binary?reverse=1.

Get them off the internet immediately.
What indoctrination is happening at school? At my dd's school there are constant pride events and teachers pushing it.
The school is responsible for this along with the internet.
Please contact Transgender Trend.

@GoingtoGlasgow Check if she's been going to an lgbtq+ 'club' at school? These are everywhere and seem to be mostly pupil-led and for us a root of pressure for the children in my dd's yr to define their 'identity' and sexuality - at 11/12.
It's astonishing the environment in schools now.
I would suggest checking out the RSE materials too.

@ThiagoSilvasToe

I don't think the form tutor should have emailed you at all. It's nothing to do with you and is entirely your child's decision. They should be asking your child, not you, if it's ok to inform teachers.

This is the sort of post that makes me believe what I used to see as half-baked conspiracy theories that Russia is sowing discord and trying to break down western society.

When my dd went through this (and it was a big deal to her, she was distressed and shaking) I gave her a version of the 'shit sandwich': anything that was negative or not what she wanted was sandwiched between positive, loving, accepting statements. The main sandwiched statement was that I told her that I could not use non-feminine pronouns to describe her because pronouns were about how the speaker perceived the world. But for the next few months I avoided referring to dd using gendered language when speaking with her or around her. I accepted her feelings about herself.

The teacher was absolutely right to talk to you about your child.

I realise you’re either protecting your child by hiding his or her sex, or trying to comply with his or her request, but I think for the purposes of an anonymous thread on Mumsnet, it would be quite helpful to know your child’s sex. Girls tend to be much more susceptible to peer pressure than boys, for example.

I’m going to respond with how I might react had this been my daughter.

I wouldn’t be too worried about the claim to be non-binary, assuming you have a daughter, and assuming she’s otherwise well-balanced and sensible. Pretty sure I’d have adopted that label when I was that age, had it been available. I reckon it’s a fad most will grow out of. If there’s any progression towards binders or any other bodily harm, I would strongly discourage any such move, with reminders that she might need her breasts later, even if she doesn’t feel like it now.

I would be more worried about the fact that your child has the false belief that people can change sex. I think I’d be attempting to address that with the school.

I would perhaps try to find out where your child has sourced that information. If it’s at school, not so bad (though awful that the school is propagating such nonsense). If she’s online on Tumblr, or one of those similar sites where indoctrination tends to progress, I think I’d be more worried.

At home, I think I’d make it clear I loved my child, but would reject any calls to change name or use nonsensical pronouns. If she showed any signs of genuine distress or progression, I would attempt to find a gender critical counselling service.

From what you’ve said, it sounds to me like a fad, similar to becoming a goth would have been when we were young. If the school want to go along with the nonsense, I’d probably not interfere. I would, however, ask to see their teaching materials on the subject and ask why your daughter thinks people can change sex, because that really is dangerous nonsense.

@ThiagoSilvasToe

I don't think the form tutor should have emailed you at all. It's nothing to do with you and is entirely your child's decision. They should be asking your child, not you, if it's ok to inform teachers.

You do realise that treating children as fully fledged, mature adults who need no guidance whatsoever is partly how we are where we are? Would you have this stance on literally any other topic than gender identity? Dealing with lots of money? Having sex? Health issues? Exposure to violence/porn/extreme political ideology? Personal boundaries and consent? Anything? Or is it just this where it’s entirely up to the child and nothing whatsoever to do with their parents (at the age of 11/12)?

It is shocking @loislovesstewie

Unfortunately use of twee euphemisms like "top surgery" means people have no understanding what this involves.

Freddy McConnell, (a trans man who identifies as a seahorse and has been through the courts - unsuccessfully - seeking the right to be named as Father on the birth certificates of the babies Freddy has given birth to,) appears not to have understood that having top surgery would mean an inability to breast feed in the future.

When while year groups adopt a non binary or trans identity it can hardly be clearer that this is a fashion/social contagion. The risks for those that get sucked in should not be underestimated and teachers should stick to teaching facts.

Specifically humans cannot change sex and surgery has serious consequences.

*whole year groups - not while