Why isn't The Sun all over this?

[blueirises]

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed or whatever next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

I was reading about some related lunacy yesterday and thinking this needs a News of the World type exposé. I never thought I'd miss that newspaper.

It was actually the Conservatives that brought the reform of the GRA to the Commons . Labour, Lib Dems etc just jumped on the bandwagon and the Tories have sat back and watched the reaction to Labour tie themselves in knots over the issues. I don't read the Sun but my guess is they support the TRA's movement . The Sun is a horrible misogynistic paper.

Today in The Sun

I mean, they haven’t not. They tend to publish some of the same articles as the Mail, and the Mail has been pretty good at exposing the crazy. But I think there’s some missing links at the moment.

Sun: Tits = good

It doesn't really go into much more detail than that.

James Hacker:
I know exactly who reads the papers. The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country. The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country. The Times is read by people who actually do run the country. The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country. The Financial Times is read by people who own the country. The Morning Star is read by the people who think the country should be run by another country. And the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey Appleby:
Prime Minister, what about the people who read the Sun?

Bernard Woolley:
The Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

@CaptainSmartarse

It was actually the Conservatives that brought the reform of the GRA to the Commons . Labour, Lib Dems etc just jumped on the bandwagon and the Tories have sat back and watched the reaction to Labour tie themselves in knots over the issues. I don't read the Sun but my guess is they support the TRA's movement . The Sun is a horrible misogynistic paper.

The Sun are the paper-equivalent of a swing voter though. They seem to turn whichever way they think the wind is blowing (in every election since 1970, they've backed whichever party eventually won). Given that normally they'll publish anything as long as it gets them a clickbait headline (horrid crimes being particularly lucrative in this regard), it's bizarre how there is a deathly silence on this issue.

It can't be News UK keeping them quiet, News UK also own The Times.

Not that their involvement is in any way missed by us...

The Sun would be all over this if the Page 3 girls were actually men self-identifying as women.

@blueirises

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed or whatever next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

Because it's not something Sun readers particularly care about presumably. It's a middle class bubble issue, you hardly ever hear it discussed outside of those circles. Most people barely ever even see a trans woman, it's not impacting on their lives at all and they've got bigger things to worry about. The Sun like all papers focus group and poll their readers, if this was something coming up a lot they'd be all over it but it's not. As a culture war issue it's been useful to the right in attacking 'woke' universities and Guardian reading types but beyond that it's been a bit of flop - the UK doesn't have a strong enough religious movement like the US for things like this to really fly anymore. Most people couldn't care less in either direction, they just see it as feminists and lefties arguing over things that have little relevence to their day to day lives.

@Ionlydomassiveones

They will when their mum is on the same ward as fully intact ‘Tina’ or their little princess has to change at school in front of a male bodied classmate or their competitive swimming daughter has no chance of ever winning… it’ll filter down at some point. Let’s just hope it won’t be too late by then.

This is what I mean though. None of this stuff is happening in people's lives and we've been hearing for seven years now that any minute now it's all going to start. Schools are making compromises to ensure privacy, trans women haven't made a dent at all in UK sports (or anywhere else really) and most people are more concerned that many hospital wards are actually fully mixed sex than they are about the very occassional trans women.

None of this stuff is happening in people's lives

You speak for yourself.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-doctors-approved-breast-removal-for-51-trans-teenagers-qvkmz8r2c

'Fifty-one teenagers aged 16 and 17 who were born as females were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for “specialist chest reconstruction” over the past six years'

@Ionlydomassiveones

They will when their mum is on the same ward as fully intact ‘Tina’ or their little princess has to change at school in front of a male bodied classmate or their competitive swimming daughter has no chance of ever winning… it’ll filter down at some point. Let’s just hope it won’t be too late by then.

This is what I mean, really. Since the Times and Mail are covering all of it now, why not the Sun? I'm no Tory, I don't want them in again, but I suppose ideally the tabloids would get this out there in time for the Man on the Clapham Omnibus to make his feelings known and Labour etc would change tack. If people in the Red Wall seats were saying loudly enough that they don't want this batshittery, mightn't the captured parties quietly drop it all? So for most on this board, it would be better if it happened now, with a GE far enough off. Is THAT why it's not getting much coverage at the moment; they're waiting to pounce later?

Not happening? Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre now do not offer any single sex services and as a result women are self excluding from a service they require after suffering trauma. This is the direct result of an ideology which allows a male to take a job for which the occupational exemption was invoked (and ignored) and funding is contingent on a service being 'inclusive' to the detriment of women who require single sex services.

You have defended this decision to exclude women on other threads so you're aware the situation is happening. You suggested just instead that those excluded women 'justify a need for a single sex service' or fundraise to set up their own service. You very graciously allow the existence of the (entirely London based) NIA.

Why are you claiming that it's not happening?

@Thelnebriati

None of this stuff is happening in people's lives

You speak for yourself.

Well it's just not for the vast majority of people. No-one I know outside of LGBT and feminist circles I know ever brings it up, most people are reasonably supportive of trans people, and in my experience working class women tend to be one of the most supportive groups of all. It's just not a big deal to most people who've got far more important things to be worried about, namely money, and that's where The Sun can activate prejudices by scaring people about jobs being under threat because of migration or that someone's getting benefits when they have to work. This is just a bit of fluff, useful now and then if they want to go on an anti-woke rant but not really something people are interested in - in fact where people do comment it's usually that they're sick of hearing about it and there's far more important things going on.

@DomesticatedZombie

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-doctors-approved-breast-removal-for-51-trans-teenagers-qvkmz8r2c

'Fifty-one teenagers aged 16 and 17 who were born as females were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for “specialist chest reconstruction” over the past six years'

And most of them will be 18 and therefore adults once they have the op. Most reasonable people support adults doing what they want with their bodies, and there are far more than 51 teenage girls having breast implants and other cosmetic surgeries.

Women are losing essential services. For example, 'inclusive' domestic violence shelters exclude women with children, because you can't put children in a mixed sex DV shelter.

The fact that people haven't told you to your face about any direct impact doesnt surprise me at all.

People know about this stuff now, the days when the tabloids could outrage readers with salacious stories about 'sex swap ops' are long gone. No-one cares now.

Ah yes, working class mothers, far too worried about bills to be concerned about their children wanting to cut body parts off or males coming into changing rooms with their daughters.

@Thelnebriati

Women are losing essential services. For example, 'inclusive' domestic violence shelters exclude women with children, because you can't put children in a mixed sex DV shelter.

The fact that people haven't told you to your face about any direct impact doesnt surprise me at all.

But they do put children in trans inclusive refuges, as long as they are not boys over 14. And most refuges barely ever see a trans women - I talked to one person recently who's worked in refuges for 20 years and she's only ever come across one trans woman - and no-one knew she was trans until she'd been there six months and disclosed it. It's just not big news for most people, it's a middle class moral panic and Sun readers have got more important things to care about.

@IvyTwines

Ah yes, working class mothers, far too worried about bills to be concerned about their children wanting to cut body parts off or males coming into changing rooms with their daughters.

But their children aren't wanting to cut body parts off and their daughters aren't reporting men coming into their changing rooms, which nearly all have cubicles these days anyway.

You dont listen and you have no empathy with the women affected by this.

"trans women haven't made a dent at all in UK sports (or anywhere else really"
I beg to differ. I play a team sport for a womens team in a womens league and there were two trans women on the opposite team a few months back. We are not playing at a high level, and you may not consider this to be a 'dent in UK sport, but it was certainly a huge deal to me. A fairly big dent I'd have said. And not just because the other team trashed us. Which is actually the irrelevant part of the story.
The thing is, by the time most people realise and start to ask what the hell is going on, self ID will probably be enshrined in law.

'Fifty-one teenagers aged 16 and 17 who were born as females were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for “specialist chest reconstruction” over the past six years'

This is another example of where the muddying of language gets us. Reading "51 teenagers sent for specialist chest reconstruction" outside the context of this thread would lead me to think of the victims of knife crime who had suffered punctured lungs or something. Not cutting off perfectly healthy body parts for no good medical reason.