Why isn't The Sun all over this?

[blueirises]

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed or whatever next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Barley Of course GC feminists are bothered by cosmetic surgery to the extent that it represents the wider stereotyping of women as decorative objects etc. However, my rights are not under direct threat from a person having lip filler but they are under threat from people seeking to deny the concept of sex and sex based rights.

Your rights are not under direct threat from trans men having surgery and yet it's still been brought up on this very thread as an atrocity.

I don't think I've ever heard a gender critical activist call for breast enhancements to be banned, even for under 18s, but I've heard lots of GC people saying top surgery should be banned for under 25s. Almost as if it's a transgender critical movement rather than a gender critical one.

Tosh as usual. Just throwing all the mud you can and hoping something will stick, I suppose?

But transition surgery is to feed into a lie. It won't change your sex. It creates pretend organs that won't do the job nature intended. And requires medication for life.

It's completely different to remove perfectly working body parts.

And for the record I'm not comfortable with any cosmetic surgery. And gender stereotypes too.

"Find me one gender critical organisation with a substantial critique of the cosmetic surgery industry on their website"

Nope barley - I'm not a support human for you. You're the expert in googling.
On this board (as opposed to the rest of Mumsnet) we're focused on keeping predatory men out of women's spaces, ensuring that child safeguarding is not eroded, discussing the dangerous levels amongst girls of social contagion, discussing political issues, cancel culture, powerful lobby groups eradicating women's rights and a range of other issues (that's a speedy random list, not in order of priority).

Feel free to start a thread about cosmetic surgery and some of the knowledgeable women on here might be prepared to share their knowledge / expertise and political analysis with you.

A prominent trans man (who upon gaining their GRC seemed to celebrate by immediately trying for a baby. Such an odd thing to do if you reject all that is feminine) has recently shared how aggrieved they are at being unable to breastfeed their newborn. And blamed cis society for not making this downside more explicit to them pre transition.

This from an adult individual apparently able to make such life changing decisions who is also keen for much younger people to be able to do the same.

The LONG TERM HEALTH consequences to the individual of Top surgery aren't comparable to breast implants or lip filler.

I mean, they're both pretty horrendous but bloody hell they're really not the same.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

The LONG TERM HEALTH consequences to the individual of Top surgery aren't comparable to breast implants or lip filler.

I mean, they're both pretty horrendous but bloody hell they're really not the same.

There can be some side effects from top surgery but there are more significant risks from implants including increased risk of cancers. Other forms of cosmetic surgery can be even more dangerous.

Why is it TRA never use the proper word? “top surgery” is such a wishy washy mealy mouthed twee euphemism. It’s a mastectomy - if you believe that there’s nowt wrong with loping off healthy breasts, why won’t you use the word?

@barleybadminton

"But the number of young people actually having treatment is miniscule. Around one in 100,000 annually. A large secondary school would only expect to see a child who is medically transitioning once ever 100 years."

Try my school. Middle sized secondary school (about 750 pupils). We have 4 teenaged girls transitioning, 2 already on hormones and in a "homosexual" relationship as 2 "gay men". Two further who expect to start hormones soon.

3 non binary girls considering hormones but two are on waiting lists already.

One male trans teenager who has yet to decide to go on hormones but is also considering it. On a waiting list but about to leave at 18 so will go onto adult gender clinic.

So, I make that 8. Or just under 1 in every 100 pupils. In a single school.

My own kids had 2 at their school (a tiny secondary school with only 100 pupils - so 1 in 50).

It is EVERYWHERE in schools.

I see barley's now an expert in women's breast surgery / cosmetic surgery / double mastectomies plus national and international data on cancer risks from cosmetic surgery. Amazing to have such an expert posting on here

@Goatsaregreat

I see barley's now an expert in women's breast surgery / cosmetic surgery / double mastectomies plus national and international data on cancer risks from cosmetic surgery. Amazing to have such an expert posting on here

Gosh yes, what would we do without Barelys expertise.

Today 17:23 barleybadminton

I just love this post so much.

For anyone else not bothered to click the link:

A five aside football league in Hackney for women (and NB women) has been cancelled because people with a penis want to play against or with women. The FA are "dangerous" because they won't use pronouns.

Dangerous. Literal violence I tell you.

Gender critical activists are not protesting outside cosmetic surgeons with pictures of surgeries gone wrong

@barleybadminton too bloody right we're not. That sort of horrid harassment is the preserve of anti-abortion activists and TRAs. You'll not find any of us nailing dead rodents to doors.

No, we'll stick to ethical ways of achieving change.

@barleybadminton

If this was only an issue within these communities it would STILL be one causing distress to a large number of people, wouldn't it? And so would need addressing.

Oh don't get me wrong in those communities it is causing distress. Most of the feminists I know are very concerned about the gender critical movement and LGBT people even more so, especially as it's increasingly leaking into attacks on gay men, gay culture and LGBT institutions. There's a real determination to stay united and resist this, you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

What a load of rubbish!

Sentiment on the ground of what, the Owen-Jones-reading yoga classes of Brighton?

I speak to a lot of women in various aspects of my work - from upper middle to working class - and it's generally the heterosexual middle class women who have not much idea about this and are oblivious to most of it. LB women most definitely have an opinion, and most of them aren't very happy about it once you get beyond the middle class young ones who are all super-libfem. The women most likely to be in support of it all are young or very insulated middle class women. Definitely not working class women who are not at all impressed.

You must be in a very specific kind of community if all the lesbians you know are pro-TQ. Interestingly I know a fair few Tory-voting lesbians (and gay men!), though I'm not a Tory voter myself (not all LGBT people are left wing you know, especially in the working and upper middle classes!) and they are all pretty scathing about it all.

As for working class women, and older women, I've heard a lot of rather straight-talking stuff about all of this which has no truck with any of the TQ pieties at all.

@DdraigGoch

Gender critical activists are not protesting outside cosmetic surgeons with pictures of surgeries gone wrong

@barleybadminton too bloody right we're not. That sort of horrid harassment is the preserve of anti-abortion activists and TRAs. You'll not find any of us nailing dead rodents to doors.

No, we'll stick to ethical ways of achieving change.

Well that's exactly what gender critical activists did outside an event for trans children.

Where and when did this incident happen? And there is no such thing as trans children by the way, just children.

[quote Cismyfatarse]@barleybadminton

"But the number of young people actually having treatment is miniscule. Around one in 100,000 annually. A large secondary school would only expect to see a child who is medically transitioning once ever 100 years."

Try my school. Middle sized secondary school (about 750 pupils). We have 4 teenaged girls transitioning, 2 already on hormones and in a "homosexual" relationship as 2 "gay men". Two further who expect to start hormones soon.

3 non binary girls considering hormones but two are on waiting lists already.

One male trans teenager who has yet to decide to go on hormones but is also considering it. On a waiting list but about to leave at 18 so will go onto adult gender clinic.

So, I make that 8. Or just under 1 in every 100 pupils. In a single school.

My own kids had 2 at their school (a tiny secondary school with only 100 pupils - so 1 in 50).

It is EVERYWHERE in schools. [/quote]
Well given in the recent GIDS case the number of referrals to puberty blockers in the most recent year was 141 then this school must be exceptional.

Which event?

@Rhannion

Where and when did this incident happen? And there is no such thing as trans children by the way, just children.

uncommongroundmedia.com/posie-parkers-graphic-protest-against-stonewall-policies/

Over a metre tall and with the type of gory content you might expect to see on a modern cigarette packet, there was no way delegates at the Stonewall ‘Children and Young People Conference 2019’ conference could miss the message. The provocative banners were part of a protest organised by feminists, they bore graphic images of skin removed from the arms and legs of young people and torsos with mastectomy scars. The accompanying text read ‘Transing children is child abuse. Are you part of it?’

were part of a protest organised by feminists, they bore graphic images of skin removed from the arms and legs of young people and torsos with mastectomy scars. The accompanying text read ‘Transing children is child abuse. Are you part of it

Sounds quite reasonable to me. After all, that kind of damage, particularly on a child's body, is quite abusive. Maybe you haven't seen how women's arms are left after a big sleeve of flesh is taken to make something that is supposed to look like a penis. I found it most upsetting the first time I saw it. Anyone who hasn't got a strong stomach, I would advise not to Google the images of these.

Posie is right with her message 'first do no harm'. Isn't she.

I do think if people are considering this pathway they should be aware of all the facts.

Maybe she should’ve used some modern youth lingo bantz to make it acceptable to Barley.

Or slapped an Eminem lyric on the placard.

Protesting a conference is hardly the same as harassing people outside a hospital. Besides, as conference protests go, it's not in the league of the "suck my girl dick" placards outside a conference focusing on VAWG.

But then again, in a world where calling someone by their name is literally "frightening language" (give me strength), I suppose that nothing can be seen in proportion.

Barley
It wasn’t an event for trans children. It was an event about trans children.

From the link above.
“The Stonewall conference, which advertised standard tickets at £216 per person, was aimed at professionals across the education sector. ”