Why isn't The Sun all over this?

[blueirises]

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed or whatever next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

None of this stuff is happening in people's lives
Fancy trying my life for size?

'Middle class moral panic' my arse. 'Trans' was incredibly rare even ten years ago. Yet I now know four young adults who ID as trans - oh, no, make that five, and I've probably forgotten one. Young people rendering themselves infertile before their brains are fully mature - and long before they would have ever been given the chance to get sterilised if they were trans - is perhaps worth panicking over.

The only women I’ve met who aren’t bothered are smug women who think they’ll never state provided single sex services. The sort of women who only use private gyms, health insurance funded medicine etc. The women I know who work in refuges are concerned. The women I know who work in hospital wards are concerned. Primary school teachers are concerned.

Lots of families I know have been affected, if there is a child with gender dysphoria in the school year it brings up lots of questions.

Well it's just not for the vast majority of people.
We were already well aware that vulnerable people (rape victims for example) are overlooked by the majority in society.

The thing is, by the time most people realise and start to ask what the hell is going on, self ID will probably be enshrined in law.

Self ID has been in place in most situations for decades and most people either haven't noticed or don't care.

@IvyTwines

Ah yes, working class mothers, far too worried about bills to be concerned about their children wanting to cut body parts off or males coming into changing rooms with their daughters.

Come to think of it, the social contagion in schools seems to be an almost universally middle-class thing. It's almost as if the kids of working class families know that you can't identify your way out of oppression.

@EdithStourton

None of this stuff is happening in people's lives Fancy trying my life for size?

'Middle class moral panic' my arse. 'Trans' was incredibly rare even ten years ago. Yet I now know four young adults who ID as trans - oh, no, make that five, and I've probably forgotten one. Young people rendering themselves infertile before their brains are fully mature - and long before they would have ever been given the chance to get sterilised if they were trans - is perhaps worth panicking over.

But the number of young people actually having treatment is miniscule. Around one in 100,000 annually. A large secondary school would only expect to see a child who is medically transitioning once ever 100 years.

No-one I know outside of LGBT and feminist circles I know ever brings it up

To me, you are making it sound like these communities don't matter....

If this was only an issue within these communities it would STILL be one causing distress to a large number of people, wouldn't it? And so would need addressing.

But it's effecting every part of our lives and I am seeing it every day, with children I work with. It's effecting my family.

Also barley, if you are very insistent in your views people might be avoiding talking about this with you for fear of falling out, that's another thing I have found. People with questions, worries and objections to the current climate might well just be keeping quiet - and yes, I acknowledge, on both sides of the debate.

It is just something no-one seems able to discuss without falling out, so perhaps a subject generally avoided but often contemplated....

TRA myth number 37
"It never happens"

If this was only an issue within these communities it would STILL be one causing distress to a large number of people, wouldn't it? And so would need addressing.

Oh don't get me wrong in those communities it is causing distress. Most of the feminists I know are very concerned about the gender critical movement and LGBT people even more so, especially as it's increasingly leaking into attacks on gay men, gay culture and LGBT institutions. There's a real determination to stay united and resist this, you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

And what were they condemning them for? Ah yes, speaking to people who are covered by one or more of the other 9 protected characteristics in the EQA.

You never did answer my question as to whether you had looked up and seen the organisations included in a Round Table meeting with the EHRC probably because, as usual, you can't bear to face the truth.

@barleybadminton

If this was only an issue within these communities it would STILL be one causing distress to a large number of people, wouldn't it? And so would need addressing.

Oh don't get me wrong in those communities it is causing distress. Most of the feminists I know are very concerned about the gender critical movement and LGBT people even more so, especially as it's increasingly leaking into attacks on gay men, gay culture and LGBT institutions. There's a real determination to stay united and resist this, you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

I have to report, barley, my experience is literally the opposite, so perhaps we cancel each other out!!

Anyway believe it was LGBTQ+ groups recently condemning the legitimacy of women's sex based rights, not LGB groups.

I have to report, barley, my experience is literally the opposite, so perhaps we cancel each other out!!

Perhaps, but I'd be surprised if your part of the LGBT community. The local gay bar round here just covered itself in trans flags in solidarity, and it wasn't the most trans friendly venue prior to that. And the anger against LGB Alliance is palpable - conservative gays and lesbians have always existed, once known as assimilationists, but they have always been fringe and never tried to speak for the entire community before. People are furious and there's a likelihood of big protests this Summer.

But that's not something The Sun are likely to care about to go back to the op.

During the summer, a relative brought up the subject of Hubbard and the Olympics very, very carefully. She admitted she was expecting me to jump down her throat for being transphobic.

Little did she know. I doubt she'd ever have been foolish enough to blurt out her thoughts to someone like Barley

@VestofAbsurdity

you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

And what were they condemning them for? Ah yes, speaking to people who are covered by one or more of the other 9 protected characteristics in the EQA.

You never did answer my question as to whether you had looked up and seen the organisations included in a Round Table meeting with the EHRC probably because, as usual, you can't bear to face the truth.

You never did answer my question as to whether you had looked up and seen the organisations included in a Round Table meeting with the EHRC probably because, as usual, you can't bear to face the truth.

Do you mean the meeting held in 2019 before Kishwer Falkner was appointed? Not really relevant to the current situation.

23:07barleybadminton
Perhaps, but I'd be surprised if your part of the LGBT community

Why are you denying the existence of Q+ people?

My (right) tit was removed for breast cancer.

Will the Sun newspaper cover that??

Some people are deluded. Women and Lesbian groups and services have almost gone due to the insistence that men. should have the right to be there . Resistance is huge. From all political sides . Once you ask the right questions , nearly everyone agrees that no males however they define, should be in places where women and girls are undressed or where they have chosen to be away from men Eg changing rooms , hospital wards, women’s refuges. Men should respect that. If any questions are posted on AIBU , with a poll, the percentage is huge from women not generally on the S and G board. Some men have a lot invested in shouting us down and discounting what we say. I wonder why.

all DomesticatedZombie
Thanks! That was genius and made me laugh a lot. 😀

@barleybadminton

The thing is, by the time most people realise and start to ask what the hell is going on, self ID will probably be enshrined in law.

Self ID has been in place in most situations for decades and most people either haven't noticed or don't care.

barley you are the gift that keeps on giving 😂

Perhaps barley and everyone else should have a wee look over on the Scotsnet board at the thread Do Women in Scotland know how bad things have got. Can I draw your attention in particular to the article referenced written in Wings over Scotland blog. It’s about the safety, privacy and dignity of people with disabilities.

and no-one knew she was trans until she'd been there six months and disclosed it

You think that's acceptable somehow because this born male managed to get away with it?

Grim.

There's a real determination to stay united and resist this, you must have seen all the LGBT orgs condemning EHRC recently - that very much reflects sentiment on the ground.

Be determined all you want jjbarley.. The general public do not agree with your position. You must be insane if you think that once the general public became aware of the truth, that they would be willing to throw safeguards for women and children out of the window. All to validate the identities of born males 🤨 Fucking ridiculous if you believe that.

Anyone with kids in school knows about this, teachers certainly know. People are starting to talking about this - normally with an 🙄 ime. But it’s dangerous - yes, actually dangerous, to talk about - for many people it’s too risky to discuss at work ( which is where many people have most of their chats). I think you are right that there is a class element, it would be interesting to explore why. Some schools have lots of trans kids, while others have none - but of course it’s not a social contagion! And schools can’t discuss WHY they are having a sudden, massive number of kids with gender dysphoria because that would be ‘transphobic’.

The general public do not agree with your position.

But all the places barley hangs out adorned with Flags are filled with people who agree with the Flags, and would excommunicate anyone who questioned the Rightness of the Flags.

So how could there possibly anyone who disagrees with the policy

And how could there ever be any problems caused by the Flags? No-one ever mentions the problems in the Bar of Flags. And that's where all the right-thinking people hang out. So it can only be Bad People who oppose the Flags making up the problems.

(There is a reason this sort of regime is very unstable and collapses extremely fast, you know, despite seeming all-powerful for a while - it's all surface agreement while the resistance builds and foundations rot. Even if it had good intentions, errors can never be corrected, so bad actors take advantage, and it inevitably faceplants. The only variable is how many people get harmed before it does).