Why isn't The Sun all over this?

[blueirises]

I've been a lurker here for quite a while, but I may have missed something. I just wonder why The Sun, with its history of "exposing" "Looney left" policies, doesn't seem to be covering the mess that Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens are making of self-ID and other anti-women ideas. Are they hanging fire until closer to a general election, or do they really not think their readership want to know about the possibility of men getting changed or whatever next to their wives, daughters, mothers etc?

@barleybadminton

Don't worry, everyone will wake up when their daughters are losing to males in the sporting teams at school.

Funny isn't it how certain posters lecture us with great certainty about women's history, politics, feminism, literature all acquired via google even the gc movement.

And every single time women / feminsts for whom this is our history, unpick and expose the falsehoods, the untruths, phrase by phrase, sentence by sentence.

It's grimly amusing to see anti women posters claim that the 'GC movement' is middle class 'whinging'. Gender ideology is the epitome of a luxury belief, illustrated by the experiences of the Deptford Project in London (starts about half way down this article) www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

The whole thing is an important read but I'll just quote the last two paragraphs -

'It’s bad enough that women are being fired, ostracized, bullied, and threatened for trying to speak about an issue that affects their lives, rights, spaces, and movements in so many ways. That it is largely young, white, middle and upper class individuals, bullying marginalized women, who have worked in these movements for decades, makes the situation all the more shocking and hypocritical.

Mcdonagh says:

“I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.”

@Waitwhat23

It's grimly amusing to see anti women posters claim that the 'GC movement' is middle class 'whinging'. Gender ideology is the epitome of a luxury belief, illustrated by the experiences of the Deptford Project in London (starts about half way down this article) www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

The whole thing is an important read but I'll just quote the last two paragraphs -

'It’s bad enough that women are being fired, ostracized, bullied, and threatened for trying to speak about an issue that affects their lives, rights, spaces, and movements in so many ways. That it is largely young, white, middle and upper class individuals, bullying marginalized women, who have worked in these movements for decades, makes the situation all the more shocking and hypocritical.

Mcdonagh says:

“I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.”

But, but, but barley knows that working class men and women don't think this way after all barley knows some, clearly not those sort of working class women though so them and their opinions don't exist and can be dismissed.

@Linguini

Homophobia isn't a huge "deadly" problem.

There have been two homophobic murders in 6 years.

Meanwhile, women are killed by their male partner at a rate of three a week currently.
Normally two a week but it's gone up with the pandemic.

And, I believe, 10 murders of transwomen in the last 12 years in the UK one of which the murderer was also a transwoman.

How many murders of woman and children have there been in that timeframe in the UK?

Which group requires the most safeguarding against violence?

14:13VestofAbsurdity

There were three transwomen who committed murder in 2020 alone.

In the UK you're as likely to be a murderer as you are to be murdered as a transwoman. (If not slightly tilted towards less likely to be murdered).

Homophobia is still a real and potentially deadly problem in the UK

Which is not helped by telling a lesbian that she is transphobic for not wanting the dick of "Sharon" the straight white male.

Barley sees the world through a prism of rainbow lanyards/ flags and sociable protests, thinking that only those who shout loudest should be heard.

In reality, the ordinary women who are impacted by the trans agenda mainly don't shout out, having been socially conditioned by the male mindset that Barley is so keen to prioritise. The women who can no longer swim at Hampstead Ponds because they're now mens, mixed and mixed. The raped women who can not access female-only support. The female prisoners who assume there's no point in complaining about sexual assault because society already considers them the lowest of the low. They are just quietly enduring, fearful of the consequences.

I'm hear to say fuck this shit on their behalf.

If everyone apart from people on FWR are so accepting, why is everything done behind closed doors and in secrecy instead of spelling everything out in detail?

Barley
If the whole aim is harmless and totally benign why the Denton’s advice on stealth “marketing”?
Why not just come out and say:-
“- We do not believe biological females should be allowed a single sex spaces.

• We do not believe that giving birth is a female activity nor that the word mother has a meaning.

-We do not believe that the measurable differences caused by male puberty are relevant in sport” etc. That would be simple and clear so why hide the message?

[quote Phobiaphobic]@barleybadminton

Don't worry, everyone will wake up when their daughters are losing to males in the sporting teams at school.[/quote]
Meanwhile outside of the gender critical bubble: www.goal.com/en-gb/news/women-non-binary-league-suspended-fa-transphobic-rules/blt96f3ae8debb4b15d

"I spoke to the FA on Wednesday, and they were not helpful, in fact they were quite dangerous in the language they used - they didn't want to use the player's correct pronouns, they kept insisting on using the player's name so they didn't have to use their pronouns.

"The rules they have involve invasive tests in order for trans people to play, and if any of our team are not made to feel welcome, we are not going to play.

"We are so angry - this league has been going since 2017 as an LGBT-inclusive league, this can't be the first time this has happened. This is a well-known, financially backed league, and people feel scared to speak up about these issues. I am tired of the way organisations use LGBT labels to entice people and gain from sponsors, but then not wholly protect us.

"We just want to make proper change that lasts, and make people feel safe."

Since Camden Bells announced their boycott, several other teams in the league also said they would not play any further matches, leading to Super 5 League announcing on Monday that no further games would take place until further notice.

What are these invasive tests? I mean the article states they were “quite dangerous” in the language used for using the players name rather than a pronoun, which means what?

Barley
Research has showed that trans women retain their physical advantage over biological women even with hormone treatment. There is a risk assessment that sporting bodies are faced with. Do they allow biologically mixed contact sports or not? It is not transphobic to recognise that the difference in physical strength between a TW and a biological female (however they identify) exists and may in some cases raise the risk of harm to other players. The sporting body has a duty of care to all players and may need to balance competing interests in the name of safety and fairness.

in fact they were quite dangerous in the language they used - they didn't want to use the player's correct pronouns, they kept insisting on using the player's name so they didn't have to use their pronouns .

I can think of all sorts of things that are dangerous - both in and outside Camden. Not using someone's unknown pronouns isn't it! How on earth people expect to be taken seriously when they indulge in this level of hyperbole I cannot imagine.

As a culture war issue it's been useful to the right in attacking 'woke' universities

//

You mean those institutions which de-platform any one with slightly gender critical thoughts?

This is what I mean though. None of this stuff is happening in people's lives

///

What about women in prison with men who claim they're women then assault other actual female inmates?

Of course it's bloody happening.

You really can't compare a boob job to transitioning surgery and a life on hormones.

they didn't want to use the player's correct pronouns, they kept insisting on using the player's name so they didn't have to use their pronouns.

Pronoun misuse =Literal violence 😭😭

Meanwhile, back in the real world women are still getting injured / assaulted by men. In areas that are women's single sex spaces.

@barleybadminton

People know about this stuff now, the days when the tabloids could outrage readers with salacious stories about 'sex swap ops' are long gone. No-one cares now.

No. You don't care. About women and girls this aggressive shit affects

Not cutting off perfectly healthy body parts for no good medical reason

////

This

Since Camden Bells announced their boycott, several other teams in the league also said they would not play any further matches, leading to Super 5 League announcing on Monday that no further games would take place until further notice.

Well no one is forcing them to play. If they don't like the rules....

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

You really can't compare a boob job to transitioning surgery and a life on hormones.

There are clear and potentially serious risks with breast implants, and other cosmetic procedures - and there are no laws preventing under 18s having those procedures.

Yet no-one seems to particularly troubled by that. We don't hear people talking about mutilated bodies even when women have quite extreme work done. Gender critical activists are not protesting outside cosmetic surgeons with pictures of surgeries gone wrong. It's almost as if when someone born biologically female has surgery in order to enhance her adherence to patriarchal beauty standards then it's of little concern but should someone do something which defies those expectations it is a tragedy and they have mutilated themselves (and need to be stopped for their own good).

Now I can see why men would be furious about someone born female making themselves unfuckable (in their eyes) and that rage is palpable when you hear men like Glinner discuss it. But I would have thought those who describes themselves as feminists would have a more nuanced approach and those who call themselves gender critical would have the cosmetic surgery industry firmly in their sights - along with the fashion and beauty industry - feminists certainly used to. It's almost as if there is only really an interest in criticising gender when it defies the expectations that come with someone's born sex.

Good grief Barley. I know you regularly display a complete lack of knowledge about feminism but even by your standards, alleging that gc feminists aren't bothered by cosmetic surgery is a corker.

Do you never get embarrassed that you make so many completely untrue assertions about things you evidently know so little about?

@Goatsaregreat

Good grief Barley. I know you regularly display a complete lack of knowledge about feminism but even by your standards, alleging that gc feminists aren't bothered by cosmetic surgery is a corker.

Do you never get embarrassed that you make so many completely untrue assertions about things you evidently know so little about?

So bothered about it that it's barely ever mentioned whereas people never shut about trans men and non binary people having surgery.

Find me one gender critical organisation with a substantial critique of the cosmetic surgery industry on their website.

Barley
Of course GC feminists are bothered by cosmetic surgery to the extent that it represents the wider stereotyping of women as decorative objects etc. However, my rights are not under direct threat from a person having lip filler but they are under threat from people seeking to deny the concept of sex and sex based rights.