thank you from a TW

[Atarax]

Firstly apologies for posting in a woman's forum. I am transgender (male who lives as female). I wanted to thank the people here who keep me grounded and secure in who I am (not a woman, just a man who is in the wrong body and is fortunate to live in a society that lets me present, act and be accepted as a woman).
Reading threads here on safe spaces gave me the courage to use a men's changing room for the first time since transitioning - I never used woman's ones just accessible/gender neutral rooms. Not surprisingly I did not get attacked, a few curious looks and I kept myself covered in a towel.

You all keep it real and that is so important for those non extreme trans people. Don't stop the dialogue (but do keep respectful). Thanks again, just wanted to post because many (most?) of us get it.

identifies as a Ritz cracker

Topical.

@DomesticatedZombie

Topical.

Painful!

It does look like it would chafe.

As a bloke, I salute and welcome you. Gender non conformity is to be celebrated especially as you are doing the right thing. I view that more transgender males in male spaces as a sign of a healthy society and the death of toxic masculinity. I think that the vast majoity of men feel the same and it is a mystery why TRA's aren't pushing for male acceptance.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if TW were using their status as males to change society for the better as you describe instead of making the women squeeze up

I think that the vast majoity of men feel the same and it is a mystery why TRA's aren't pushing for male acceptance.

It’s not. They want the validation that comes with being in our spaces.

I view that more transgender males in male spaces as a sign of a healthy society and the death of toxic masculinity. I think that the vast majoity of men feel the same and it is a mystery why TRA's aren't pushing for male acceptance.

Seriously, why aren't you both discussing this with men on Dadsnet then?

As a bloke, I salute and welcome you. Gender non conformity is to be celebrated

Transwomen aren't gender non conforming tho. Despite acknowledging his sex, a male presenting 'as a woman' is cementing gender stereotypes. Stereotypes which are largely detrimental to women.

In a patriarchal society, males perpetuating disadvantage to females through the use of gender, is entirely conforming to their gender role. It doesn't get more typical.

Being impressed or offering kudos to a male who gives women the barest acknowledgement of this is also no where near gender nonconforming.

The whole concept of transgenderism relies on sexism. Men who acknowledge this, but keep doing it, are still perpetuating it and are still, as ever, putting themselves first to women's disadvantage.

Seriously, why aren't you both discussing this with men on Dadsnet then?

That’s an excellent question. Or Pistonheads even.

The whole concept of transgenderism relies on sexism.

@lucythejuicy Just to let you know, posts from men who start their posts with speaking as a man/bloke here (or hello ladies) are fucking infuriating anyway but more so in this topic. This is FWR and women can speak for themselves and are doing so. Useful for you to read and educate yourself properly, but as PP said, once you have done that, why don't you go over to Dadsnet or other male dominated forums (ie all of them except MN) and talk about toxic masculinity etc.

Men are the source of all the issues here - you're the reason why women don't want you in our spaces. As a class, you are abusive and violent to women. We are speaking up about this and want our voices heard, not interrupted and talked over by men who are also telling us how to behave when we are discussing this.

And no, I don't hate men - I have a DH and DSs, and yes NAMALT blah blah and I know not all men are like that, but it's always men.

That took me so long to type that I cross posted with women saying the same

"Wouldn't it be wonderful if TW were using their status as males to change society for the better as you describe instead of making the women squeeze up"

Says the man coming onto Mumsnet (a space dominated by women) and giving his opinion, which is incorrect and actively harmful to women. Oh the irony.

@lucythejuicy

As a bloke, I salute and welcome you. Gender non conformity is to be celebrated especially as you are doing the right thing. I view that more transgender males in male spaces as a sign of a healthy society and the death of toxic masculinity. I think that the vast majoity of men feel the same and it is a mystery why TRA's aren't pushing for male acceptance.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if TW were using their status as males to change society for the better as you describe instead of making the women squeeze up

As others have said, it is not gender non conformity. It is cross gender stereotype conformity

Transwomen tend to look as feminine as possible. All make up, hair, clothes, high heels, head tilts and tinkly laughs. They promote the stereotypes that so many women have fought long and hard to destroy. THS IS toxic masculinity writ large.

And, as some have already said, thanks for your kind words but you might have wanted to read round a bit more. See what many women actually do want, do say, do understand about the attack on their rights, freedoms and safety. Then please do go off to whatever male dominated forums you may visit and start the reducation of men.

I am assuming from your name that you are "of an age" and would encourage you to continue readng here, you might be surprised at just how non compliant with those stereotype many women actually are!

Seriously, why aren't you both discussing this with men on Dadsnet then?

I would genuinely be impressed if a man did this. Trans or otherwise.

Oh, and for the regulars here. JuicytheLucy username is probably taken from a late 60s/early 70s British blues/rock band JuicyLucy. Their name came from the book "The Virgin Soldiers - 'an oriental tart'

Their album titles are stereotypically 'male' including Lie Back and Enjoy It; Get a Whiff a This; Here She Comes Again, song titles much the same - Built for Comfort; That Woman's Got Something; Lie Back and Enjoy It; Big Lil etc.

So, enthusiastic supportive post aside...

@Datun

Seriously, why aren't you both discussing this with men on Dadsnet then?

I would genuinely be impressed if a man did this. Trans or otherwise.

Yeah, me too. But, as this particular poster seems to have the same musical tastes as my utterly misogynistic father, I have my doubts that today will be the day!

@lucythejuicy, yes, please start this discussion on pistonheads. And I'll give you a pass to come back here and report.

I think whether or not TW are GNC is not simple. I fully accept that some are conforming to 'feminine' stereotypes and therefore uphold the whole system of gender. But then there are the likes of Alex Drummond who has a full beard plus skirts and jewelry- I still think he is trolling with 'expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman' when he is very clearly expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a man. Then there's people like Miranda Yardley, who doesn't present in an exaggeratedly feminine way and doesn't claim to be a woman either.

@Datun

As a bloke, I salute and welcome you. Gender non conformity is to be celebrated

Transwomen aren't gender non conforming tho. Despite acknowledging his sex, a male presenting 'as a woman' is cementing gender stereotypes. Stereotypes which are largely detrimental to women.

In a patriarchal society, males perpetuating disadvantage to females through the use of gender, is entirely conforming to their gender role. It doesn't get more typical.

Being impressed or offering kudos to a male who gives women the barest acknowledgement of this is also no where near gender nonconforming.

The whole concept of transgenderism relies on sexism. Men who acknowledge this, but keep doing it, are still perpetuating it and are still, as ever, putting themselves first to women's disadvantage.

Absolutely Datun

Individuals with identities love gender stereotypes, they just don't like the ones associated with their own sex.

I am a woman of the female variety. I was quoting an earlier post although I haven't got the hang of the bold yet. I am also GC. That's doesn't mean I have to act like an arsehole to everyone that has a penis ...

@SamphiretheStickerist wtf are you on about - my name is Lucy and I am not old enough to remember some obscure band in the 60s I am afraid. OP this board is a vipers den. Reverse

@StillWeRise and I don't need a pass from you to be on this forum thanks.

[quote lucythejuicy]@SamphiretheStickerist wtf are you on about - my name is Lucy and I am not old enough to remember some obscure band in the 60s I am afraid. OP this board is a vipers den. Reverse [/quote]
oh dear - you were quoting @Apollo441 - but that really wasn't clear as you made no indication of that!

You can either bold using * directly around the text you are quoting (no spaces) or use the 'quote' function if the post doesn't already contain a quote.
Stick around....

OP this board is a vipers den.
That escalated quickly.