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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

409 replies

KittenKong · 27/01/2022 11:01

Going on twitter. She was in a Women’s ward (signage says ‘women’ but later this was disputed by staff).

Another patient on ward ‘Annie’ (not real name). Visitor comes in ‘Hello Fred’.

Woman patient complains that there is a male in the ward. Staff come on handed and tell her that there isn’t (and that there were no single sec wards) - and treated as if she is a troublemaker.

Woman mysteriously discharged PDQ, although not quite feeling well enough in herself.

twitter.com/gillyism/status/1486596070096478209?s=21

Baroness is on the case.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 07:11

@Rheopecticfluid

Interesting. I'm already second guessing what line that will be. It must be either the line with privilege in it, or, probably more likely, the man.

Did I guess right?

I'll wait for Eel to validate

Your thoughts are my thoughts.
AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 04/02/2022 07:12

Any male who wishes to remove female spaces is a problem. TRAs who advocate for males to be in female spaces are no different to MRAs
If it were really about trans then why not respect women and campaign for third spaces

ButYouGottaHaveASkillJeff · 04/02/2022 07:27

Of course not every trans man is a threat to women (on hospital wards in this instance), but biological males campaigning to be in women's spaces are opening doors for the ones who ARE a serious threat when those doors don't need to be opened. And let's face it, it's a lot of males.

If trans women really are 'women' as they claim to be, they wouldn't do that.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 08:20

Or is it that you are a man?

Yes, because every woman who isn't scared of setting foot out by herself must be a man Hmm
not

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 08:21

Called it.

I'll be gathering my winnings now, wims.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 08:22

was it them who insisted that posters 'needed therapy' for taking precautions to keep themselves safe (as every woman I know does) on another thread
That definitely wasn't me

Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 08:26

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Or is it that you are a man?

Yes, because every woman who isn't scared of setting foot out by herself must be a man Hmm
not

Bingo. ✅

🏅🥇💰💸

Round 2. 🥊

Ding ding. 🔔

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 08:30

I should nominate a feminist charity for other regulars to donate to, in lieu of posting my own bank details.

Who would be most appropriate?

Waitwhat23 · 04/02/2022 08:33

@EeeICouldRipATissue

was it them who insisted that posters 'needed therapy' for taking precautions to keep themselves safe (as every woman I know does) on another thread That definitely wasn't me
Fair enough.
Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 08:33

Maybe Eeel has some ideas.

Any guesses on what Eel would choose? Grin

Starts the clock. Tick tock, tickity tock..

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 09:03

I have three nominations!

  1. Fair Play for Women

Fair Play For Women is a campaigning and consultancy group which raises awareness, provides evidence and analysis, and works to protect the rights of women and girls in the UK.

www.fairplayforwomen.com

  1. The MOCRA Foundation, which supports women and girls pregnant after rape: www.mocra-foundation.com/

  2. Keep Prisons Single Sex was established in 2020 to campaign for the sex-based rights of women in prison to single-sex accommodation and same-sex searching. We also campaign for data on offending to be recorded by sex throughout the criminal justice system.

kpssinfo.org/ They're gardening at the moment!

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 04/02/2022 09:18

@AssignedBlobbyAtBirth

Any male who wishes to remove female spaces is a problem. TRAs who advocate for males to be in female spaces are no different to MRAs If it were really about trans then why not respect women and campaign for third spaces
This is it.

A decent human being regardless of their biological sex recognises that we have sex segregated spaces for a bloody good reason. A decent person would not try and push those boundaries. Those who do, I'll go out there and say there is probably a good proportion who do this partly for sexual kicks. This is not saying all TW are predators but as male behaviour patterns are not changed by transitioning (and lets not beat around the bush, in many cases little actual transitioning really happens) existing predatory intents remain.

There are many prominent TW who recognise and support this. And the oddly enough get piled on by their kin. Confused

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 04/02/2022 09:24

I do believe a poster yesterday joined the thread to basically tell us all of for spreading hate and fear to trans people and that gender criticism had poisoned feminism. Apparently feminism chat was a hot bed of nothing but transphobic bile where nothing else was ever discussed.

A screen shot of a few moments ago .... plenty of other stuff occurring.

Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.
Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 09:25

Great choices PurgatoryOfPotholes

barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 11:55

@AssignedBlobbyAtBirth

Any male who wishes to remove female spaces is a problem. TRAs who advocate for males to be in female spaces are no different to MRAs If it were really about trans then why not respect women and campaign for third spaces
How would third spaces work in a busy hospital?

Do you think there should be a ward set aside for trans people, which most of the time would probably be empty. And it should be kept empty even if the hospital runs out of beds because obv it's better people die than anyone has to share a ward wth a trans woman? It's just not practical given the way the NHS currently runs, and would be likely to increase the number of sexual assaults in hospitals as staff are diverted to supervise a near empty ward.

AssignedBlobbyAtBirth · 04/02/2022 12:03

Nonsense. Wards are frequently changed according to need. A male ward can be reallocated as female if needed
It's either sex segregation or third spaces
Or what we have now which is men trampling over women's rights and spaces. I know which you prefer

Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 12:04

You're right Barley. It's not possible in a hospital. So people need to be accomodated on the ward of their birth sex. After all you don't think there's no risk of harm with born males sharing with females. In which case, by your own logic, there's no risk of harm to males identifying as women sharing with other males.

Innocenta · 04/02/2022 12:21

I just don't think it's realistic to expect a fully transitioned trans woman to be an inpatient on a male ward.

(And before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of being a "TRA" - I'm not. Intermediate positions exist.)

Lovelyricepudding · 04/02/2022 12:25

I just don't think it's realistic to expect men who have had cosmetic surgery and take medication in the form of cross sex hormones to be an inpatient on a male ward.

Corrected it. Why shouldn't they be?

Waitwhat23 · 04/02/2022 12:27

@Innocenta

I just don't think it's realistic to expect a fully transitioned trans woman to be an inpatient on a male ward.

(And before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of being a "TRA" - I'm not. Intermediate positions exist.)

Why?
DialSquare · 04/02/2022 12:30

@Innocenta

I just don't think it's realistic to expect a fully transitioned trans woman to be an inpatient on a male ward.

(And before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of being a "TRA" - I'm not. Intermediate positions exist.)

Why not? Medically, they will have far more in common with other Male patients than Women.
DdraigGoch · 04/02/2022 12:39

@Innocenta

I just don't think it's realistic to expect a fully transitioned trans woman to be an inpatient on a male ward.

(And before anyone jumps on me and accuses me of being a "TRA" - I'm not. Intermediate positions exist.)

What does "fully transitioned" mean?
barleybadminton · 04/02/2022 12:54

@Rheopecticfluid

You're right Barley. It's not possible in a hospital. So people need to be accomodated on the ward of their birth sex. After all you don't think there's no risk of harm with born males sharing with females. In which case, by your own logic, there's no risk of harm to males identifying as women sharing with other males.
I've already said I don't believe trans women represent the same threat as men but I don't want to derail this thread with a long discussion about that.

So let's say, for the sake of argument they do. From a purely dispassionate risk assessment point of view how should hospitals manage this if the aim is to minimise sexual assaults - with the presumption that a trans women being assaulted and women born biologically female being assaulted carries the same weight ie they are both to be avoided, and one is not seen as more important than the other.

Say a biologically born female has ten stays in hospital. In that time she might share a ward with a single trans women once, given how few trans women there actually are. Whereas a trans women would have to share with a ward full of men every single time. We know from overwhelming evidence that trans women are just as likely to face sexual assault from men as other women - so from a risk assessment point of view what do you do - minimise the absolutely tiny risk of a woman being assaulted by a trans women or minimise the much greater risk of a trans woman being assaulted by a man in a men's ward. In fact a trans women on a men's ward would likely require greater supervision of the ward, more resources and in fact increase the liklihood of a woman being assaulted by one of the many medical and maintenance staff, or male visitors that the women's wards are already full of.

From a risk assessment point of view if you really cared about women being assaulted then you would surely be looking at preventing women from having male visitors, or increasing security so men can't just wander onto women's wards which they frequently can in most hospitals. But that would cost money and a lot of women wouldn't like it. But that, as well as increasing staffing are the kind of things you'd need to do to lower the prevalence of sexual assaults in hospitals.

Placing trans women on men's wards would not make hospitals safer for women and would make them much more dangerous for trans women, and that's without issues around dignity and whether trans women would just disengage from healthcare possibly leading to deaths.

And that's really the crux of this debate. Should trans women be placed at huge risk, have their dignity compromised, and possibly feel that healthcare is not available to them to prevent someone's discomfort at sharing a ward with a trans women or an infinitesimally tiny increased risk - a hypothetical risk in fact because the only published evidence to date says trans inclusion does not place women at increased risk.

Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 12:55

It's more realistic to have a male on the male ward, even if they have transitioned, than it is to have them on a female ward. After all, trans activists are of the belief that men aren't a risk to women on female wards. So by the same token, men certainly won't be a risk to a male (who has transitioned) on the male ward. They'll be fine. 👍 No point in being bigoted and hateful towards the menz. It's just genitals after all.

Fridafever · 04/02/2022 12:57

Are you all aware that lots of wards are mixed sex anyway? I can’t see the NHS setting up third spaces when they aren’t even managing two.