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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman on ward - complains about male patient. Is discharged.

409 replies

KittenKong · 27/01/2022 11:01

Going on twitter. She was in a Women’s ward (signage says ‘women’ but later this was disputed by staff).

Another patient on ward ‘Annie’ (not real name). Visitor comes in ‘Hello Fred’.

Woman patient complains that there is a male in the ward. Staff come on handed and tell her that there isn’t (and that there were no single sec wards) - and treated as if she is a troublemaker.

Woman mysteriously discharged PDQ, although not quite feeling well enough in herself.

twitter.com/gillyism/status/1486596070096478209?s=21

Baroness is on the case.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/02/2022 23:30

Amazing how this "fair enough point" happens to be sabotaging a campaign to help bring together the 50% of the population who have female anatomy. How come Munroe doesn't identify enough with women to tolerate women speaking about female anatomy in a country where access to abortion seems to be perennially under threat? Abortion is now gone in one American state. American women are not in a secure enough position to make these concessions to people like Munroe, and never were.

extract 1

Apussyhatis a pink, crafted hat, created in large numbers by women involved with the United States2017 Women's March. They are the result of thePussyhat Project, a nationwide effort initiated byKrista SuhandJayna Zweiman, a screenwriter and architect located in Los Angeles, to create pink hats to be worn at the march.[1]

In response to this call, crafters all over the United States began making these hats using patterns provided on the project Web site for use with either aknittingmethod,crochetingand evensewingwith fabrics.[2][3]The project's goal was to have one million hats handed out at the Washington March.[3]The hats are made using pink yarns or fabrics and were originally designed to be a positive form of protest for Trump's inauguration by Krista Suh. Suh, from Los Angeles, wanted a hat for the cooler climate in Washington, D.C. and made a hat for herself to wear at the Women's March, realizing the potential: "We could all wear them, make a unified statement".[4]One of the project founders, Jayna Zweiman, stated "I think it's resonating a lot because we're really saying that no matter who you are or where you are, you can be politically active."[3]Suh and Zweiman worked with Kat Coyle, the owner of a local knitting supply shop called The Little Knittery, to come up with the original design. The project launched in November 2016 and quickly became popular on social media with over 100,000 downloads of the pattern to make the hat.[5][1]

extract 2
A global women’s movement, created almost overnight. Millions of women, men and children at over 600 rallies in countries touching virtually every continent. Young and old, rich and poor. Educated and not, religious and secular. Straight and LGBTQ, every race and color. All wearing hand-made, knitted caps on a single day, awash in a sea of pink, arm-in-arm in solidarity for women’s rights and in protest against the rhetoric used toward women and minorities in the previous year’s state and federal elections.

And it all started with two sticks and a ball of yarn.

In late 2016, artist and design architect Jayna Zweiman was rehabbing from a serious injury. Unable to work or engage in strenuous physical activity, Jayna wanted to find a creative healing modality she could do for recuperation. She roped in Krista Suh, a screenwriter, to take a crochet classes at the Little Knittery, a local yarn store near her home in Los Angeles. The two were hooked.

During many lengthy conversations in knitting circles, the two women found common ground in their passion for women’s rights and the inspiration they found in the pro-women’s rights language of the pending Women’s Marches.

Krista was planning to attend the Women’s March in Washington DC that January of 2017, and needed a cap to keep her head warm in the chill winter air. Jayna, due to her injury, would not be able to attend any of the marches, but wanted to find a way to have her voice heard in absentia and somehow physically “be” there. Together, a marcher and a non-marcher, they conceived the idea of creating a sea of pink hats at Women’s Marches everywhere that would make both a bold and powerful visual statement of solidarity, and also allow people who could not participate themselves – whether for medical, financial, or scheduling reasons — a visible way to demonstrate their support for women’s rights.

Little Knittery owner Kat Coyle designed a simple and brilliant pattern that would allow people of all knitting levels to be part of the project. The name Pussyhat™ was chosen in part as a protest against vulgar comments Donald Trump made about the freedom he felt to grab women’s genitals, to de-stigmatize the word “pussy” and transform it into one of empowerment, and to highlight the design of the hat’s ’pussycat ears’. Leveraging social media and the close-knit nature of the global knitting community, word was spread and the fuse was lit.

A Pussyhat now resides in the Rapid Response collection of the Victoria and Albert Museum, the permanent collection of Michigan State University’s museum, and other collections as an important piece of feminist history. What started as a simple means of protest, participation and solidarity, has become an iconic global symbol of political activism.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/02/2022 23:34

These "fair enough points" always seem to require women sacrificing political effectiveness to be nice. To be nice to someone who can't even be bothered to learn the difference between a vulva and a vagina. As many black women told Munroe at the time, their vaginas are pink.

For the sake of pursuing a point, Munroe ended up othering black women from women. It was disgusting.

NitroNine · 04/02/2022 00:04

@EeeICouldRipATissue

but there’s never been any doubt or confusion over my sex. Amazing, isn’t it? Well lucky you for passing the looking enough like a woman test. Pity this woman wasn't as lucky to be as womanly looking as you.
Did you miss the part about my getting admitted to paeds? As in paediatrics. Where the human females they treat are girls, not women.

So no, they didn’t think I looked like a woman. They did, however, identify my sex correctly.

Trying to pretend that my very clear reference to medics being able to identify sex correctly in unconscious patients was some kind of a swipe at someone whose sex was called into question due to their appearance actually IS a vicious thing to say.

DdraigGoch · 04/02/2022 00:13

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Well the HCPs knew the person in question was a woman, even if another woman in the ward didn't know Didn't stop the person in question being harassed/intimidated and told she didn't belong there as she was a man, though did it?
Where is it stated that there was a direct challenge to the individual? As opposed to a discrete word to the staff.
EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 00:18

How is getting mistaken for a girl the same or equivalent to getting mistaken as a man though?
In your case, you got put with other biological females.
In this women's case, some would have had her in with the men.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 00:21

@EeeICouldRipATissue

How is getting mistaken for a girl the same or equivalent to getting mistaken as a man though? In your case, you got put with other biological females. In this women's case, some would have had her in with the men.
Who is this "some"?

Medics? Nurses?

yourhairiswinterfire · 04/02/2022 00:45

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-gaslights-women-who-want-single-sex-wards-as-transphobes-claims-nurse-9xntx69p5

Dr Sinead Helyar, a clinical research nurse, said NHS policies allowing transgender patients onto single-sex wards were “formulated and enacted to the detriment of women ”.

Speaking at a fringe meeting at the Conservative Party conference on Tuesday, Helyar said doctors working for at least one trust had been told to “reiterate . . . that there are no men present” if questioned why a transgender patient was on a single-sex ward.

                                                      ....

In one mental health trust, a male who identifies as a woman was placed on a female ward with observation. This patient complained that the observation was discriminatory, and it was removed.

The patient went on to sexually assault two women patients. The same patient was placed on a female ward on a subsequent admission, and each time assaulted women. Staff concerns were ignored.

A Stonewall spokesperson said: “Trans women should be able to access dignified and high-quality healthcare in the same way as everyone else.

Inclusive healthcare practices make us all safer and, in 2021, it should not be controversial to ensure that all LGBTQ+ people get the healthcare and support that they deserve. ”

How sweet that some posters are so very concerned for a woman that was misgendered.

You care about women so much, one being misgendered horrifies you, but where's that same ''concern'' and outrage on threads like this for those women sexually assaulted? We don't see you on them. Why?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4367520-NHS-gaslighting-patients-on-female-only-wards

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 00:55

but where's that same ''concern'' and outrage on threads like this for those women sexually assaulted?
I am concerned and outraged when women are sexually assaulted, and have commented on threads in the past when they have been.
In cases like this though, nobody has been assaulted.
Nobody was in any danger.
Also with trans people just being out as trans.
Doesn't necessarily mean they're a danger.
Some seem to think they are though, which is ridiculous, they're people just like we all are.

CharlotteRose90 · 04/02/2022 01:33

I’m sorry but if you have a penis then you belong on a male ward. I do not give a shit if you call yourself a unicorn or female whatever while you have a penis you belong on the male ward. I’m so over this shit that’s happening.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 01:53

I’m sorry but if you have a penis then you belong on a male ward. I do not give a shit if you call yourself a unicorn or female whatever while you have a penis you belong on the male ward. I’m so over this shit that’s happening
What if somebody doesn't have one though?
As in this thread is about a biological woman.
Even if about a trans woman, if they've fully transitioned, don't have one anymore, they pass as a woman, look like a woman, have the equipment so to speak.. where do they go?
You're potentially shunting off and alienating both trans women and biologically born women on the fact you don't think they're woman enough.
And why are they automatically seen as a threat to you?
It's clear people can't '' always'' tell.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 02:03

@EeeICouldRipATissue

I’m sorry but if you have a penis then you belong on a male ward. I do not give a shit if you call yourself a unicorn or female whatever while you have a penis you belong on the male ward. I’m so over this shit that’s happening What if somebody doesn't have one though? As in this thread is about a biological woman. Even if about a trans woman, if they've fully transitioned, don't have one anymore, they pass as a woman, look like a woman, have the equipment so to speak.. where do they go? You're potentially shunting off and alienating both trans women and biologically born women on the fact you don't think they're woman enough. And why are they automatically seen as a threat to you? It's clear people can't '' always'' tell.
why are they automatically seen as a threat to you?

A) male. Do you have the stats proving that transition changes male offending patterns to mimic women's?

B) threat is not the only issue. Dignity and comfort are also an issue. I don't want to be given a bed bath in front of my brother, and he's gay.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 02:20

A male
Ok, that's how you feel
It's also presumably where we differ though as I don't automatically perceive every male to be a threat.
Just like I don't perceive people who are trans to be.
I see us all as just people in our own right.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 02:24

@EeeICouldRipATissue

A male Ok, that's how you feel It's also presumably where we differ though as I don't automatically perceive every male to be a threat. Just like I don't perceive people who are trans to be. I see us all as just people in our own right.
That's nice. Are you as equally laissez-faire when it comes to keeping money safe, or is it just the safety of women and children that is an acceptable sacrifice?

99% of sexual offenders are male. 88% of those targeted are female. 1 in 5 women is subjected to attempted rape or completed rape in her lifetime.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 02:31

What has keeping money safe got to do with what we're talking about?
Also.... women and children aren't automatically in danger from being around trans people.
Or males.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 02:32

extract

Gentlemen. Thank you for reading.

Let me start out by assuring you that I understand you are a good sort of person. You are kind to children and animals. You respect the elderly. You donate to charity. You tell jokes without laughing at your own punchlines. You respect women. You like women. In fact, you would really like to have a mutually respectful and loving sexual relationship with a woman. Unfortunately, you don’t yet know that woman—she isn’t working with you, nor have you been introduced through mutual friends or drawn to the same activities. So you must look further afield to encounter her.

So far, so good. Miss LonelyHearts, your humble instructor, approves. Human connection, love, romance: there is nothing wrong with these yearnings.

Now, you want to become acquainted with a woman you see in public. The first thing you need to understand is that women are dealing with a set of challenges and concerns that are strange to you, a man. To begin with, we would rather not be killed or otherwise violently assaulted.

“But wait! I don’t want that, either!”

Well, no. But do you think about it all the time? Is preventing violent assault or murder part of your daily routine, rather than merely something you do when you venture into war zones? Because, for women, it is. When I go on a date, I always leave the man’s full name and contact information written next to my computer monitor. This is so the cops can find my body if I go missing. My best friend will call or e-mail me the next morning, and I must answer that call or e-mail before noon-ish, or she begins to worry. If she doesn’t hear from me by three or so, she’ll call the police. My activities after dark are curtailed. Unless I am in a densely-occupied, well-lit space, I won’t go out alone. Even then, I prefer to have a friend or two, or my dogs, with me. Do you follow rules like these?

So when you, a stranger, approach me, I have to ask myself: Will this man rape me?

Do you think I’m overreacting? One in every six American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. I bet you don’t think you know any rapists, but consider the sheer number of rapes that must occur. These rapes are not all committed by Phillip Garrido, Brian David Mitchell, or other members of the Brotherhood of Scary Hair and Homemade Religion. While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is. Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. That means four in my graduating class in high school. One among my coworkers. One in the subway car at rush hour. Eleven who work out at my gym. How do I know that you, the nice guy who wants nothing more than companionship and True Love, are not this rapist?

I don’t.

When you approach me in public, you are Schrödinger’s Rapist. You may or may not be a man who would commit rape. I won’t know for sure unless you start sexually assaulting me. I can’t see inside your head, and I don’t know your intentions. If you expect me to trust you—to accept you at face value as a nice sort of guy—you are not only failing to respect my reasonable caution, you are being cavalier about my personal safety.

Fortunately, you’re a good guy. We’ve already established that. Now that you’re aware that there’s a problem, you are going to go out of your way to fix it, and to make the women with whom you interact feel as safe as possible.

To begin with, you must accept that I set my own risk tolerance. When you approach me, I will begin to evaluate the possibility you will do me harm. That possibility is never 0%. For some women, particularly women who have been victims of violent assaults, any level of risk is unacceptable. Those women do not want to be approached, no matter how nice you are or how much you’d like to date them. Okay? That’s their right. Don’t get pissy about it. Women are under no obligation to hear the sales pitch before deciding they are not in the market to buy.

(Continues)

The fourth point: If you fail to respect what women say, you label yourself a problem.

There’s a man with whom I went out on a single date—afternoon coffee, for one hour by the clock—on July 25th. In the two days after the date, he sent me about fifteen e-mails, scolding me for non-responsiveness. I e-mailed him back, saying, “Look, this is a disproportionate response to a single date. You are making me uncomfortable. Do not contact me again.” It is now October 7th. Does he still e-mail?

Yeah. He does. About every two weeks.

This man scores higher on the threat level scale than Man with the Cockroach Tattoos. (Who, after all, is guilty of nothing more than terrifying bad taste.) You see, Mr. E-mail has made it clear that he ignores what I say when he wants something from me. Now, I don’t know if he is an actual rapist, and I sincerely hope he’s not. But he is certainly Schrödinger’s Rapist, and this particular Schrödinger’s Rapist has a probability ratio greater than one in sixty. Because a man who ignores a woman’s NO in a non-sexual setting is more likely to ignore NO in a sexual setting, as well.

Continues: deadwildroses.com/2011/09/21/schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-a-guide-for-the-men/

CharlotteRose90 · 04/02/2022 02:41

@EeeICouldRipATissue

I’m sorry but if you have a penis then you belong on a male ward. I do not give a shit if you call yourself a unicorn or female whatever while you have a penis you belong on the male ward. I’m so over this shit that’s happening What if somebody doesn't have one though? As in this thread is about a biological woman. Even if about a trans woman, if they've fully transitioned, don't have one anymore, they pass as a woman, look like a woman, have the equipment so to speak.. where do they go? You're potentially shunting off and alienating both trans women and biologically born women on the fact you don't think they're woman enough. And why are they automatically seen as a threat to you? It's clear people can't '' always'' tell.
When you enter a hospital it is on your medical file what gender you are and therefore you should be put into the right bay . However if someone is born male and claiming to be female then yes they belong on the male ward. Some people look manly some look feminine it doesn’t go off that and if it did then the person would need to ask the sister in charge if they feel concerned.
EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 02:41

My activities after dark are curtailed. Unless I am in a densely-occupied, well-lit space, I won’t go out alone
Why though?
I regularly go out by myself, have done since a teen and I'm now old.
I get the whole you can't see inside people's head argument, but you seriously can't go around scared of everyone as you think they are going to attack you /rape you as that's seriously not a healthy way to live or state of mind to be in.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 04/02/2022 02:42

Go out by myself after dark that should read

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 03:13

You seem to have missed this paragraph:

To begin with, you must accept that I set my own risk tolerance. When you approach me, I will begin to evaluate the possibility you will do me harm. That possibility is never 0%. For some women, particularly women who have been victims of violent assaults, any level of risk is unacceptable.

TurquoiseBaubles · 04/02/2022 04:16

@EeeICouldRipATissue

My activities after dark are curtailed. Unless I am in a densely-occupied, well-lit space, I won’t go out alone Why though? I regularly go out by myself, have done since a teen and I'm now old. I get the whole you can't see inside people's head argument, but you seriously can't go around scared of everyone as you think they are going to attack you /rape you as that's seriously not a healthy way to live or state of mind to be in.
Well aren't you lucky Eel. I suppose your lack of concern explains your posts on this and other threads.

Unfortunately, in the real world, there are many women who know the fear of going out alone and who have experienced first hand the consequences of "not being afraid enough".

The very fact that you don't understand this makes me wonder why you are posting here. You obviously have no understanding of how very many women live Hmm

Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 05:15

@EeeICouldRipATissue

My activities after dark are curtailed. Unless I am in a densely-occupied, well-lit space, I won’t go out alone Why though? I regularly go out by myself, have done since a teen and I'm now old. I get the whole you can't see inside people's head argument, but you seriously can't go around scared of everyone as you think they are going to attack you /rape you as that's seriously not a healthy way to live or state of mind to be in.
Well ain't that nice for you eel. Many women haven't been as lucky as you seem to be. Having been the victim of sexual assault from previously unknown men, it pays to be a little wary. How privileged that you don't need to be.

Do you live in the middle of nowhere?

Or is it that you are a man?

Or maybe you're just extraordinarily lucky. The odd person is I guess

Migrainesbythedozen · 04/02/2022 05:35

@Rheopecticfluid It's the "I'm right Jack, stuff you" attitude.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/02/2022 07:04

Rheopectic

Prediction: Eel will ignore most of your two posts to obsess over one particular line, which she will bellyache over not understanding.

Rheopecticfluid · 04/02/2022 07:10

Interesting. I'm already second guessing what line that will be.
It must be either the line with privilege in it, or, probably more likely, the man.

Did I guess right?

I'll wait for Eel to validate

Waitwhat23 · 04/02/2022 07:11

Some of the wording in Eeel's last posts is dinging a horrible little bell in my head - was it them who insisted that posters 'needed therapy' for taking precautions to keep themselves safe (as every woman I know does) on another thread?

Swipe left for the next trending thread