School trip policies on overnight accommodation for trans children

[foodfiend]

Short version:
School's policy appears to be something long the lines that trans girls can share with girls if the girls are OK with it. Dd (14) is proposing sharing a room with trans girl friend and another girl. We have said we're not happy about this. Dd says that's transphobic.

Long time lurker here - would welcome any relevant experience, especially from any secondary teachers. School trip is this spring, planned since Oct - they've now been asked to submit room share preferences - rooms of 3. Dd is friendly with a trans girl - (since before name change ~ 2 years ago). Dd says A told her that the teacher had told A that they could share with whoever they want 'as long as everyone was OK with it'. (I have now checked with the teacher, and this appears to be correct.) Dd and another girl have agreed to share with A.

DH and I both said, hang on, A is male. It is not appropriate for you to be sleeping in mixed sex bedrooms. Dd says A is not male and we are transphobic.

To be clear - the kid seems perfectly nice and I think this scenario would probably be fine. (No idea what the other girl or her parents think.) But a policy of 'yeah, sure, mixed sex sleeping arrangements are fine if everyone agrees to it' sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. And it's unclear whether I'd even know it was happening if I didn't happen to already know that A is trans.

I'm pissed off at being put in this position of having to be the one to point out that this is inappropriate and put a target on my head as 'hateful', or seeming to specifically reject A/A's identity. While Dd professes to be happy/keen on this, it's clear that it would be extremely difficult for a girl in a similar position to say that she wouldn't be happy to share - she'd be terrified of being accused of transphobia. And it seems pretty crummy for A as well to be asked to go round her friends and put them on the spot like this.

It seems like the school is relying on the kids to somehow work it out for them. And that no-one seems to have spotted the obvious risks of setting such a precedent. Will they be equally happy for a trans boy to go in with two boys next time around? Or other male and female students to choose to share mixed bedrooms?

Are any other parents and teachers able to share policies or approaches from their schools?

Thanks OP. I’ve mailed the dcs school to ask the question of using toilets and bedrooms for over night stays. Is self id gender based or biological sex.

Best find out before the dds are in the position as obv the school is not going to tell us

I just want to say I have huge respect for you OP for standing up for your daughter and for all girls. The school are being utterly spineless and deeply unprofessional.

What a shit show OP. You’re not in the wrong here. The school has utterly failed in its safeguarding responsibilities. I’m sorry to hear about the fallout. 😞

I've been trying to think of something I can say that might be of practical help, op. I'm sorry I don't have any expertise to offer, although thankfully other posters do. But I think you're doing the right thing and I'm horrified by craven, chicken-livered schools that make children responsible for their own safeguarding.

I’d be furious at the school. Their inability to make a safe and sensible decision has led to you being called a transphobe and potentially put your dd at risk of fallout by association.

You know because even if they are trans they may still choose to have sex with biological females. Look at Caitlin jenner. So the pregnancy concern is valid. They’re making judgements about this person’s sexuality, how very bigoted of the school.

‘ I really don't want this to be personal’

But it is,As your daughter was happy to share, genuinely happy to, and you’ve said no.
All the rest about policies and what happen someday, Somewhere else is irrelevant here.
These 3 students are friends and comfortable sharing a room - do you think your DD is in a relationship with the trans kid? Or the other girl?

It is not personal to have the opinion that females should not share sleeping arrangements with males.

This is not controversial.

Does it matter what any of the children’s relationship status is?

Would you ask that of a boy who identified as a boy? Would it be ok if none of them were dating? At 14?

Why would this be different?

You don’t want her to share with a trans girl, so she won’t share with a trans girl. End of.
Many schools have a similar policy.
Your DD thinks you’re unreasonable not letting her share with her trans friend. I see her POV but ultimately she can’t do anything about it.

@Isaw3ships

You don’t want her to share with a trans girl, so she won’t share with a trans girl. End of. Many schools have a similar policy. Your DD thinks you’re unreasonable not letting her share with her trans friend. I see her POV but ultimately she can’t do anything about it.

No, the OP doesn't want her daughter to share a room with a boy. It has nothing to do with how the child identifies.

@Isaw3ships

You don’t want her to share with a trans girl, so she won’t share with a trans girl. End of. Many schools have a similar policy. Your DD thinks you’re unreasonable not letting her share with her trans friend. I see her POV but ultimately she can’t do anything about it.

It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status, nor the friendship, nor the kid as a person. It is simply that they are male. End of. Why is that so difficult for some people to get their head around?

Teen males do not share bedrooms with teen females. And schools should be agreeing with that very very very basic tenet of safeguarding.

OP doesn’t want her daughter sharing with a teenage boy however they identify

Hth

‘ It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status,’

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

The objections would be exactly the same if any other non trans identifying male child was being allowed to room share with the girls. But strangely, that isn't being allowed to happen.

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.
No it isn't ,as there would be absolutely no problem if the student in question were a transmen. The problem is not about the person's gender identity, it is all about their sex.

I don’t know but I suspect the OP would be alright with her daughter sharing with a transboy.

I think most if not all of the posters here would be.

It wouldn’t be an issue if it was a girl identifying as a boy. It would be a problem if it was a boy identifying as a boy.

Do you see the common theme yet?

@Isaw3ships

‘ It's nothing to do with the pupil's trans status,’

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

No. It's about opposite sex kids sharing a bedroom. The teachers have made it about the kids trans status by saying that makes it ok. It doesn't. They are still the opposite sex.

Yeah. Except it’s everything to do with it. The whole discussion is about trans kids and school trips.

It is about a boy that identifies as a girl. This person should be treated as a boy. Why do you believe this person should be treated as another female?

Whether this person identified as a boy or a girl, they are male. Take away the trans label, and the answer is quite obvious.

Do you believe that any male should have special treatment on this instance?

If so, why?

I would not allow this, sorry. And it’s not fair that you have to be the bad guy in this situation.

What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.

The scary thing is, like the Girl Guides, the school are under no obligation to tell you.

‘What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.’

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
You do realise that teens can have sex with each other outside of sharing a room in a school trip??

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
Fuck me - have you never met a teenager?!!!! Of course they bloody would! Cheeky buggers teens.

How does that matter?

The school is potentially putting children together and facilitating it.

Why do schools not allow mixed sex rooms already? Given teens can have sex elsewhere?

Do you want to be in charge on a residential where teens are having sex with your support? Or where a girl could be assaulted?

These are worst case scenarios which is what safeguarding is all about.

This may be the world’s most lovely child ever. But safeguarding doesn’t work by assuming everything is lovely and perfect and nothing goes wrong.

Why do schools separate boys and girls in sleeping arrangements? If they can have sex elsewhere?

@Isaw3ships

‘What’s to stop boys ID’ing as female so as to share rooms with their GFs on school trips? My BF when I was 15 would have done that, I am sure.’

You honest to god believe that a straight boy would pretend to be trans to share a room with his girlfriend on a school trip? And that no-one else would pick up on that?
You do realise that teens can have sex with each other outside of sharing a room in a school trip??

I’m all ears for you to explain exactly what changes a trans girl is required to make to be trans

I mean as stonewall has told us regularly, thete is no need to change appearance, presentation or even name

Their inner gender identity is female and that’s all that matters right?

And yet again we see posters arguing that trans pupils are NOT treated equally, but given privileges not available to the other student (boys and girls do not get to share with opposite sex children unless they have a trans identity). So this is hardly equal treatment, but special treatment (which I can accept is fine if that treatment is private room if they can’t share with boys, although it’s still something not available to the rest).