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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Help. School LGBT Policy

102 replies

AudTheDeepMinded · 19/01/2022 18:48

Hello. My children's primary school have released a potential LGBT+ policy and are asking for comment. I'm reading through and so far do not have too much of an issue with it but have reached this:
The school will ensure that trans individuals are able to access the toilet and changing facilities that correspond with their gender identity.
Can anyone help me appropriately word a response to this that respectfully encapsulates my unease at this prospect (it affects staff as well as pupils) and does not make me sound unnecessarily prejudiced. Also, does this mean that a transwoman teacher would be able to supervise female pupils changing? Bluntly, this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy. Ah, I'm going to end up being labelled a terf aren't I? Help.

OP posts:
Original poster
AudTheDeepMinded · 19/01/2022 18:50

And this:
'Sleeping arrangements will be established by trans pupils and the headteacher. Where
possible, the school will ensure trans pupils are able to sleep in rooms appropriate to
their gender identity. In the event where pupils may not feel comfortable doing this,
the school will provide alternative sleeping and living arrangements'
What about the wishes of the non trans pupils, do they not get a say in the ma?tter

OP posts:
bishophaha · 19/01/2022 18:52

Can you ask specifically what this means and why they have chosen to separate toilets by gender rather than sex? Was an impact assessment carried out when they made this change?

You could also ask respectfully that they avoid conflating gender with sex, as that could be seen as transphobic.

OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2022 19:05

Check out the resources on Safe Schools Alliance, they have template letters you can use to gather together all the relevant questions.

I would also recommend writing to your MP and the HoL who have expressed interested in the related issues (Baroness Nichols and Lord Lucas).

ArabellaScott · 19/01/2022 19:07

I'd be tempted to ask how they will be handling the issue of contraception and supporting pupils who become pregnant after mixed sex dorms are implemented.

Original poster
AudTheDeepMinded · 19/01/2022 19:13

@ArabellaScott

I'd be tempted to ask how they will be handling the issue of contraception and supporting pupils who become pregnant after mixed sex dorms are implemented.
It's a primary school so (and hopefully I am not being too naive) that is not yet a consideration.
OP posts:
Novina · 19/01/2022 19:31

I second the recommendation for safe schools Alliance. Iirc, pupils over 8 years of age are legally entitled to single-sex facilities.
Running mixed-sex residential accommodation is just nuts.

BlueberryCheezecake · 19/01/2022 19:47

@AudTheDeepMinded

Hello. My children's primary school have released a potential LGBT+ policy and are asking for comment. I'm reading through and so far do not have too much of an issue with it but have reached this: The school will ensure that trans individuals are able to access the toilet and changing facilities that correspond with their gender identity. Can anyone help me appropriately word a response to this that respectfully encapsulates my unease at this prospect (it affects staff as well as pupils) and does not make me sound unnecessarily prejudiced. Also, does this mean that a transwoman teacher would be able to supervise female pupils changing? Bluntly, this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy. Ah, I'm going to end up being labelled a terf aren't I? Help.
Genuine question - if you are not in fact unnecessarily prejudiced, why do you need help making sure you don't sound like you are?
OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2022 19:57

Ah, I'm going to end up being labelled a terf aren't I? Help

Questions regarding the safeguarding of children generally do end up with labels and accusations being thrown around yes, I would ignore, stay focused on the issues and the law and ensure you get answers.

If you are unsatisfied or experience delays do consider submitting a complaint and following the school's complaints procedure. Others who have had similar situations have emailed the school governors and also OFSTED.

It sounds as if they are not meeting their equality impact assessments and have probably been captured by Stonewall or similar and are not meeting their responsibilities to all their pupils.

You will find a lot of resources on this board as well as transgender trend's website. Let us know how it goes!

Original poster
AudTheDeepMinded · 19/01/2022 19:58

@BlueberryCheesecake genuine answer: I have concerns regarding the rights of my children to be safeguarded appropriately. I feel the policy does not sufficiently ensure that safeguarding is a priority in these circumstances. I wish to articulate that but am aware that this can be interpreted as transphobic, which I am not. I do not wish to offend anyone but do wish to state my concerns in a fair, impartial and respectful way.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 19/01/2022 20:01

[quote AudTheDeepMinded]@BlueberryCheesecake genuine answer: I have concerns regarding the rights of my children to be safeguarded appropriately. I feel the policy does not sufficiently ensure that safeguarding is a priority in these circumstances. I wish to articulate that but am aware that this can be interpreted as transphobic, which I am not. I do not wish to offend anyone but do wish to state my concerns in a fair, impartial and respectful way.[/quote]
Just send that, exactly as it is. No parent should feel pressure to explain themselves in anything other than plain old English.

You have concerns and have expressed them perfectly well, any accusations of bigotry will be unfounded and anyone at the school who thinks safeguarding concerns are transphobic needs to explain themselves.

You could also get a message to Mirium Cates on this subject. Sorry, lots of letters to write and send!

HaroldMeeker · 19/01/2022 20:03

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.

Original poster
AudTheDeepMinded · 19/01/2022 20:04

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.
Potentially stealing that!
OP posts:
DoubleYouOhEmAyEn · 19/01/2022 20:07

Blueberry if she was actually prejudiced she wouldn't care how she came across.

grapewine · 19/01/2022 20:08

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.
... picks up and walks away with it.
HaroldMeeker · 19/01/2022 20:09

I stole it from someone else on here, I believe. Besides, I don't give a crap what stupid names the woke morons come up for inconvenient women like me. Asking safeguarding questions isn't a bad thing, nor are you responsible for anyone else's feelings over such questions. It's just manipulative bullshit. Protect your kids x

Goatsaregreat · 19/01/2022 20:16

I'm always Shock at an adult who finds a thread about safeguarding children and insists that a parent complaining about girls being forced to undress and sleep alongside unknown boys and men is prejudiced.

I know these people exist but it's still a shock when they express their views out loud.

Sexnotgender · 19/01/2022 20:21

@Goatsaregreat

I'm always Shock at an adult who finds a thread about safeguarding children and insists that a parent complaining about girls being forced to undress and sleep alongside unknown boys and men is prejudiced.

I know these people exist but it's still a shock when they express their views out loud.

I’m surprised you think they are an adult 😂
bishophaha · 19/01/2022 21:20

Genuine question - if you are not in fact unnecessarily prejudiced, why do you need help making sure you don't sound like you are?

If you don't normally post disingenuous falsehoods, why do you need to post "genuine question" to make it sound like you aren't?

UpDownRound · 19/01/2022 21:24

Also, does this mean that a transwoman teacher would be able to supervise female pupils changing?
In primaries female teachers already supervise male children changing and vice versa with male teachers and female children.

MargaritaPie · 19/01/2022 21:36

*"this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy"-

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

IMO the suggestion that transwomen are just trans so they can access female spaces to be perverts is possibly a contributing factor to the negative reputation being gender-critical receives.

Georgeskitchen · 19/01/2022 21:40

@AudTheDeepMinded

And this: 'Sleeping arrangements will be established by trans pupils and the headteacher. Where possible, the school will ensure trans pupils are able to sleep in rooms appropriate to their gender identity. In the event where pupils may not feel comfortable doing this, the school will provide alternative sleeping and living arrangements' What about the wishes of the non trans pupils, do they not get a say in the ma?tter
Apparently not.
CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 19/01/2022 21:44

@MargaritaPie

*"this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy"-

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

IMO the suggestion that transwomen are just trans so they can access female spaces to be perverts is possibly a contributing factor to the negative reputation being gender-critical receives.

What do you mean by "becoming a transwoman?" Surely a transwoman is anyone who says they are?

And yes I do think some sex offenders will go to any lengths necessary to access their victims.

And no I don't think that means all transwomen are sexual predators.

Georgeskitchen · 19/01/2022 21:45

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.
Most sensible statement I've seen for a long time!!
Handholding587 · 19/01/2022 21:47

The school should be treading carefully. A school I know has recently been rated inadequate by Ofsted, for allowing same sex toilets.

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