Help. School LGBT Policy

[AudTheDeepMinded]

Hello. My children's primary school have released a potential LGBT+ policy and are asking for comment. I'm reading through and so far do not have too much of an issue with it but have reached this:
The school will ensure that trans individuals are able to access the toilet and changing facilities that correspond with their gender identity.
Can anyone help me appropriately word a response to this that respectfully encapsulates my unease at this prospect (it affects staff as well as pupils) and does not make me sound unnecessarily prejudiced. Also, does this mean that a transwoman teacher would be able to supervise female pupils changing? Bluntly, this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy. Ah, I'm going to end up being labelled a terf aren't I? Help.

@IndigoToo thanks I mixed them up. It's almost like this new language isn't practical for purpose. When I see the word girl, I just think of girls and not boys.

[quote Enough4me]@IndigoToo thanks I mixed them up. It's almost like this new language isn't practical for purpose. When I see the word girl, I just think of girls and not boys.[/quote]
Yeah that's the idea....

@sashh

Politely point out that this policy leaves them open to legal action because it breaches the equality act.

It may also breach the HASAW act if they decide a trans child can access the adult/staff toilet and that if this is the case the head teacher can be personally fined up to £20 000.

Then ask them how they have fitted this policy in their safeguarding policy.

Ans safe schools alliance,

This is the post you need!

Remember that Stonewall have tried so very very hard to persuade organisations that the reverse is true. In their stuff they always say that any school NOT giving the 'trans' (ie opposite sex) kids access 'runs a real risk of prosecution under the equality act'. This is untrue.

They also like saying that proving that the single sex exemption is necessary is a 'high bar to cross'. No it isn't, it's an extraordinary low bar.

The rights of trans children do not trump the rights of girls. This is not equality Top Trumps, and they do not hold the winning card.

Go forward, OP
Don't worry about politeness
Worry about Safeguarding

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.

I don't respond to the imposed language of GII, but this made me laugh, thankyou

Also - children are not 'trans'. They are children. Male or female. Sex is a protected characteristic in law, which is what schools should be referring to.
Appropriation if Gender Reassignment (gender/sex) as a protected characteristic for children implies self-ID for children, and we don't have self-ID for adults, in England anyway, and I believe not yet in other countries of the UK so this school policy seems a bit jumping a number of legal steps too far.

Absolutely, doubletweenqueen.
This is what the TRAs claim - that the Protected Characteristic (in the Equality Act 2010) of 'Gender Reassignment' applies to children. It very probably does not, and this has not yet been tested in law (unless someone knows better...)

Lobby groups tell schools that they HAVE to do these things, because it's the law. They are lying.

@sashh

Politely point out that this policy leaves them open to legal action because it breaches the equality act.

It may also breach the HASAW act if they decide a trans child can access the adult/staff toilet and that if this is the case the head teacher can be personally fined up to £20 000.

Then ask them how they have fitted this policy in their safeguarding policy.

Ans safe schools alliance,

@sashh can you give more details? I know of a school who has allowed a child to access the adult toilet for this reason.

@oldwomanwhoruns Yes, have had the same quoted from our own school. I think it’s the obfuscation of words, as I would imagine the term gender in 'gender reassignment' is intended for male/female i.e. sex, but is being broadened (and I think I mean hijacked) to mean gender identity as well, which either is or isn’t a fore-runner to ‘gender reassignment’, so more of a catch all and would include ‘gender non-conforming’ children - although still unsure what that means.

Ah I see where you are coming from DoubleTweenQueen, and then the schools are so scared of this word GENDER which now contains threats of legal action. So they throw up their hands and safeguarding goes out of the window.

The case of a child using the teacher's facilities (iknowitsheresomewhere) doesn't sound like good safeguarding!

It's all so stupid. Why can't little boys be little boys, clothing irrelevant? And ditto for little girls. Problem solved. The schools just need a bit of backbone.

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.

Amazing! Will be using that a lot :)

@bishophaha

Genuine question - if you are not in fact unnecessarily prejudiced, why do you need help making sure you don't sound like you are?

If you don't normally post disingenuous falsehoods, why do you need to post "genuine question" to make it sound like you aren't?

Good one! ;)

@334bu

*Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.*

But then again Margarita you have stated on other threads that lesbians who have been sexually assaulted by transwomen , have no right to report it because transwomen are so vulnerable. So how can we respect anything you say with regard to the safeguarding of girls in schools. We all know where your priorities are.

pie...

P I E
e n x
d f c
o o h...

Oh dear... it is possible that Marg is not a woman and is arguing in bad faith...

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

Sex offenders have gone through the long and rigorous process of joining monastic communities and/or training as Catholic priests in order to access children, so I think it has been amply proven that there are pretty much no lengths to which predators will not go to get access to their chosen victims.

Especially as actually having all the "perks" of being trans nowadays can be achieved whilst retaining all ones sexual equipment, in full working order. 80% plus of male sexed trans people do just this, I believe.

Now why'd they keep it if it upset them so?

@AudTheDeepMinded

Where have I suggested that? That would be discriminatory. I have highlighted concerns I have about the potential motives of individuals, NOT a whole category of people.

If you were highlighting your concerns about the potential motives of individuals you would be enquiring about general safeguarding measures in place that address potential harms from individuals of all sexes/genders towards other individuals of all sexes/genders.

You're not focussed on general safeguarding measures however. You are focussed on potential harm only caused by one category of people.

You are focussed on potential harm only caused by one category of people.

Unfortunately when it comes to to safeguarding women and girls one category" male people" is potentially the most harmful. Are you saying we should ignore the threat male people pose to women and girls?

@AudTheDeepMinded

And this: 'Sleeping arrangements will be established by trans pupils and the headteacher. Where possible, the school will ensure trans pupils are able to sleep in rooms appropriate to their gender identity. In the event where pupils may not feel comfortable doing this, the school will provide alternative sleeping and living arrangements' What about the wishes of the non trans pupils, do they not get a say in the ma?tter

So this is children under the age of 12?

I'm going to need some help here. What is the difference between a pre pubescent boy and a pre pubescent boy who says he's a girl?

Second question. Why is the school treating children under 12 like small adults? Many children could potentially be LGBT but if they're acting on it at that age it's a safeguarding issue.

@Iknowitisheresomewhere

This doc might be useful.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/410294/Advice_on_standards_for_school_premises.pdf

Especially this part:

^ISS Regulation 23A — (1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2), the standard in this
paragraph is met if the proprietor ensures that—
a) suitable toilet and washing facilities are provided for the sole use of pupils;
b) separate toilet facilities for boys and girls aged 8 years or over are provided
except where the toilet facility is provided in a room that can be secured from
the inside and that is intended for use by one pupil at a time; and
c) suitable changing accommodation and showers are provided for pupils aged 11
years or over at the start of the school year who receive physical education.
(2) Where separate facilities are provided under sub-paragraph (1) (a) for pupils who
are disabled, they may also be used by other pupils, staff, supply staff, volunteers and
visitors, whether or not they are disabled.^

The lack of any consideration for the children who are not 'trans' is often strikingly absent from these documents.

Quite a few children in primary school will no longer be prepubescent. Even some boys will have begun puberty .

Thank you. In the school situation the separate toilets for the sole use of pupils have been provided, it is just that where pupils would prefer not to use the toilet provided for members of their sex, the school has agreed, presumably after consultation with the parents of the pupils, that the adult facilities can be used. These adult facilities are, I believe, single cubicles, floor to ceiling etc so I think that is probably OK.