Help. School LGBT Policy

[AudTheDeepMinded]

Hello. My children's primary school have released a potential LGBT+ policy and are asking for comment. I'm reading through and so far do not have too much of an issue with it but have reached this:
The school will ensure that trans individuals are able to access the toilet and changing facilities that correspond with their gender identity.
Can anyone help me appropriately word a response to this that respectfully encapsulates my unease at this prospect (it affects staff as well as pupils) and does not make me sound unnecessarily prejudiced. Also, does this mean that a transwoman teacher would be able to supervise female pupils changing? Bluntly, this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy. Ah, I'm going to end up being labelled a terf aren't I? Help.

I mean, unisex toilets. Sorry.

I don't think saying "I'm a woman" is all that arduous, tbh. Especially in a context where men have been found to have gone though years of training and qualifications in order to gain access to their preferred victims. Predatory men have pursued careers as teachers, paramedics, doctors, police officers, priests in order to do so. Why would a predatory man flinch at the idea of uttering a few magic words?

@Handholding587

The school should be treading carefully. A school I know has recently been rated inadequate by Ofsted, for allowing same sex toilets.

Don't suppose you would be able to DM me the name so i have a concrete example to use please?

"Surely a transwoman is anyone who says they are"

eachother.org.uk/trans-gra-reforms-legal-gender/

"To obtain a GRC, trans people must submit evidence to a panel of medical and legal officers, including a formal diagnosis of their gender dysphoria and proof that they have lived as their acquired gender for at least two years."

To answer your question, not quite.

@MargaritaPie

*"this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy"-

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

IMO the suggestion that transwomen are just trans so they can access female spaces to be perverts is possibly a contributing factor to the negative reputation being gender-critical receives.

Where have I suggested that? That would be discriminatory. I have highlighted concerns I have about the potential motives of individuals, NOT a whole category of people.

There is a reason for existing sex segregation (facilities for both sexes) and that is humans are sexually dimorphic. Trans children need to be enabled to use the facilities that match their sex, or the school provide an alternative third option. Boys need to include transboys, girls include transgirls - this is equal inclusivity.

They should not share with opposite sex as the separation is there for safety and dignity, as it has always been.

How will children be able to state they are uncomfortable with arrangements? will trans rights supercede the rights of non trans children? Basically be told to be kind?

And yes if someone is a paedophile they will go to phenomenal lengths to gain access play the long game marry there victims mother offer to have the children's friends over be everyone's best friend loved by all

Nothing in the policy about anyone having to have a GRC to qualify to use other sex facilities though?

@MargaritaPie do you know that paedophiles will say any lie, literally anything, if it benefits access to children?

@MargaritaPie

"Surely a transwoman is anyone who says they are"

eachother.org.uk/trans-gra-reforms-legal-gender/

"To obtain a GRC, trans people must submit evidence to a panel of medical and legal officers, including a formal diagnosis of their gender dysphoria and proof that they have lived as their acquired gender for at least two years."

To answer your question, not quite.

I'm well aware that legally there's more to it.

But as the definition of "woman" so often given on here is "Anyone who says they're a woman". So surely that has to work both ways?

@MargaritaPie are you really arguing that anyone without a GRC isn't trans?

I'm sure you've argued vociferously the opposite, previously.

Margarita Pie.....as in P.I.E? Bold choice if so, dearie.

@MargaritaPie my friend worked for the Serious Organised Crime Agency dealing with sex offenders. One thing he said to me was he was amazed at the lengths offenders would go to to access a victim. There was literally nothing they wouldn't do.

@MargaritaPie, you’re shockingly naïve if you don’t know that paedophiles will go to any lengths to access victims. How have you missed the endless news items about priests, Scout leaders, childcare workers, sports coaches etc who have used their position to abuse children?

At any rate, identifying oneself as Trans hardly qualifies as ‘going to any lengths’.

So Marg only TW with GRCs should be able to access female facilities then in your view? Good to have clarity on your position thank you.

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

But then again Margarita you have stated on other threads that lesbians who have been sexually assaulted by transwomen , have no right to report it because transwomen are so vulnerable. So how can we respect anything you say with regard to the safeguarding of girls in schools. We all know where your priorities are.

To be completely fair to the second part you posted, 'In the event where pupils may not feel comfortable doing this, the school will provide alternative sleeping and living arrangements' doesn't specify only the trans pupils' comfort.

I don't think, however, that female pupils should be put, possibly repeatedly, in a position of having to vocalise discomfort in order to prevent this though, nor in fact that it happening or not happening should depend on how comfortable everyone is with it. That's no basis for a safeguarding policy at all.

Any change must be worth it, based on benefit to risk analysis. Having opposite sexes mix in private spaces comes with a risk, so the benefit to trans must not be achieved this way but instead achieved by accommodating them within their usual facilities. Signage can remind boys that some males look or feel like girls and not to tease or bully, the same in girls, but signs that some girls identify as boys.

@HaroldMeeker

Don't be scared of "terf", OP. It now identifies as a new acronym, meaning - Tired of Explaining Reality to Feckwits.

Love this! I’m having that!

"you have stated on other threads that lesbians who have been sexually assaulted by transwomen , have no right to report it because transwomen are so vulnerable"

What?

@MargaritaPie

"Surely a transwoman is anyone who says they are"

eachother.org.uk/trans-gra-reforms-legal-gender/

"To obtain a GRC, trans people must submit evidence to a panel of medical and legal officers, including a formal diagnosis of their gender dysphoria and proof that they have lived as their acquired gender for at least two years."

To answer your question, not quite.

I thought minors can’t obtain a GRC? This is a primary school so would your response to the school be there are no legally trans children therefore you may not have any policies in place to treat them differently from the other children of the same sex, please send a retraction of this letter immediately?

You know perfectly well there are many trans people out there without a GRC, they are often the only ones counted in prison stats re trans as the ones with a GRC don’t show up as they are legally the opposite gender to their biological status. So your comment is clearly just trying to stir posters up. Which makes me wonder, are you 12?

@MargaritaPie

*"this opens up all sorts of possibilities for unscrupulous individuals to take advantage of such a policy"-

Transwomen are a group of people who are subject to very intense scrutiny and suspicion. IMO I really don't think a man is going to go through all the trouble of becoming a transwoman to gain access to girls' changing rooms for sex-offence reasons.

IMO the suggestion that transwomen are just trans so they can access female spaces to be perverts is possibly a contributing factor to the negative reputation being gender-critical receives.

@MargaritaPie, you may be interested by this older paper from 2011. www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E The authors note that some of the MTF transgender people in their study group from Oxfordshire were "seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role." As far as I could make out, this was 2 out of 38 who, amazingly enough ADMITTED this to a clinician. No it may not be the majority. But the minority exist, and necessitate safeguarding. And these days they are probably more sophisticated than to admit this.

So don't tell women they have to give up safety concerns in order to make transwomen feel welcome.

@MargaritaPie This is Mumsnet. Something tells me you are not a Mum.

Politely point out that this policy leaves them open to legal action because it breaches the equality act.

It may also breach the HASAW act if they decide a trans child can access the adult/staff toilet and that if this is the case the head teacher can be personally fined up to £20 000.

Then ask them how they have fitted this policy in their safeguarding policy.

Ans safe schools alliance,

@Enough4me

There is a reason for existing sex segregation (facilities for both sexes) and that is humans are sexually dimorphic. Trans children need to be enabled to use the facilities that match their sex, or the school provide an alternative third option. Boys need to include transboys, girls include transgirls - this is equal inclusivity.

They should not share with opposite sex as the separation is there for safety and dignity, as it has always been.

@Enough4me - Transboy = FtM (girl identifying as boy) Transgirl = MtF (boy identifying as girl).

So facilities for boys need to include transgirls or a third space is needed, and similarly facilities for girls need to include transboys or a third space is needed.