Gender nonsense will be the Tories secret weapon

[bellinisurge]

To my mind, the only way the Tories can get themselves out of their self made mess is to shine a light on gender woo woo in the Labour Party. I'm guessing that was behind Wes Streeting's tentative "maybe we shouldn't say burn the witch all the time".
How can they not see how vulnerable they are when Liz Truss has become a more appealing prospect for women's rights.
Jesus.

@barleybadminton

Why the fuck are you still here boring me to death?

Good line, I'm enjoying the carnage.

Aw, bless. You can't see that the carnage is coming from your mouth.

I know. I'm sorry. I'll try harder in future. Though after practicing for nearly sixty years and still not getting it, I don't hold out much hope of any realistic change now.. Tee Hee.

(And to borrow a phrase from someone much younger - Sorry not sorry...?)

Sorry (really this time), that's for Whatiswrongwithmyknee...!

What is PM Johnson's position on this?

@DdraigGoch

Not that much of a problem given Biden's resounding election win on the back of the most pro-trans rights platform ever pursued by a US presidential candidate. *@barleybadminton* he was up against a lunatic. And still wasn't that far ahead in the popular vote. Said lunatic is now ahead of Biden in the polls.

I just don't understand how anyone even calls it resounding, 46% vs 51%? of the popular vote? I mean it's usual for them to be close, but that doesn't make it resounding.

The only voter demographic Trump lost in his second election was white men. Many others went up, including a lot of the "diverse" demographics.

And as you say - people aren't exactly happy with what Biden has actually done.

Barley really does think that every GC woman on mumsnet and beyond is white, straight, middle-aged, wealthy and Tory. How blinkered can you be. Just absolutely no understanding of the fact that GC women are from all backgrounds, all races, all ages and some of us are part of the LGB community they are attempting to speak on behalf of. You're not going to get very far insisting to a diverse group of women that GC feminists are irrelevant because we are only a handful of middle-aged, middle-class white women (let's ignore how misogynistic it is to dismiss that group), when many of us know that we don't fit into that group on several counts and we know that we are not outliers in our social groups either.

@Outlyingtrout

Barley really does think that every GC woman on mumsnet and beyond is white, straight, middle-aged, wealthy and Tory. How blinkered can you be. Just absolutely no understanding of the fact that GC women are from all backgrounds, all races, all ages and some of us are part of the LGB community they are attempting to speak on behalf of. You're not going to get very far insisting to a diverse group of women that GC feminists are irrelevant because we are only a handful of middle-aged, middle-class white women (let's ignore how misogynistic it is to dismiss that group), when many of us know that we don't fit into that group on several counts and we know that we are not outliers in our social groups either.

I don't know if barley thinks it or not but it's standard tactics isn't it?

And an encouragement to share personal information.

That's exactly what they were accused of doing, what do you think Section 28 was about

But they weren’t though and so it was campaigned against successfully and repealed. “Accused” is the key word here. Trans ideology does encourage the long term medicalisation and mutilating surgeries on young healthy bodies, in fact it is necessary to achieve the desired outcomes. This is not an “accusation”.

No they were accused of luring children into a 'gay lifestyle' where they would take drugs, have deviant sex and get AIDS.

But they weren’t though, and so they have prevailed and become the accepted and often aspirational members of society they should always have been. Well not lesbians so much - that’s never been “cool” has it? Still a lot of rage and resentment directed towards them…

They didn’t demand any changes in language Are you having a laugh? Many of the older generation were furious that a word that once meant happy and carefree was now used to mean sexual deviance as they saw it

One word. Not entire changes to all language relating to women and their needs. Not to mention 24 hour games of Let’s Pretend which include instructing everyone to ignore the evidence of their own senses, and even how they must refer to them when they’re not even there!

Have you ever read any radical lesbian literature from the period or looked at some of the agitprop that was produced at that time? The lesbian and gay movement was revolutionary in nature and many sought to overturn everything from capitalism to the nuclear family.

Fringe groups? Similar to the some more extreme TRA and the TRA/ANTIFA alliance in the US, who seem to make such comfortable bedfellows… and don’t such views originate in Marxism and the aim of deconstruction of society anyway? And are not a specifically “gay/lesbian” held view?

Well said @Outlyingtrout

Women who know what a woman is will not be divided on this. We don’t have to agree on other political issues but for many of us, the preservation, and strengthening, of women’s rights is our number one political issue.

Honestly at this point even if Starmer turned round tomorrow and said only women have a cervix and we will prevent self ID, I still wouldnt vote for them.

he's proven himself a liar, a backstabber and a snake far too often, I have never and will never vote Tory, the Lib Dems (whom I did vote for) betrayed the country for power, the Greens are just hateful. if labour want my vote again they better get a socialist leader in charge again as well as stand for women.

@Leafstamp

Well said *@Outlyingtrout*

Women who know what a woman is will not be divided on this. We don’t have to agree on other political issues but for many of us, the preservation, and strengthening, of women’s rights is our number one political issue.

This.

@VelvetChairGirl

Honestly at this point even if Starmer turned round tomorrow and said only women have a cervix and we will prevent self ID, I still wouldnt vote for them.

he's proven himself a liar, a backstabber and a snake far too often, I have never and will never vote Tory, the Lib Dems (whom I did vote for) betrayed the country for power, the Greens are just hateful. if labour want my vote again they better get a socialist leader in charge again as well as stand for women.

Me too. I will never vote for Labour now whilst he retains any position of power. He's shown his true colours and I don't trust that those will change even if he tries to spin it otherwise.

no-one cares careful, you showed what you are all about there. Women care, women are not no-one however much the misogynistic might think it (oh and we aren't "men" "not men" or "men on female hormones" or "men with penis's removed" either).

Their policy was still self ID back then, so hardly a vote loser. Things not looking so bright for them now though - the culture wars are backfiring.

Haha do you honestly think it wouldn't have gone that way if the policy wasn't "self ID"? And the reason things aren't going well for them now has nothing to do with the "culture wars" unless you think that includes partying while the country was in lockdown.

How do think the majorty of LGB people, many of whom have called themselves Queer for decades, feel about a bunch of straight people

The proportion of the queer movement which is to all intents and purposes straight is probably about the same as the proportion of the GC movement, if not more. You are in cloud cuckoo land.

I am laughing at these attempts. These statements are so off the the truth but obviously it is wishful thinking.

Just like the statements such as : working class women are not concerned about this - like this poster is an authority on working class women …. because they know some.

YY. This poster to me is reminiscent of a former poster.

I read 'four poster' Ereshkiga, and spent a good ten seconds trying to work out the metaphor.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I am laughing at these attempts. These statements are so off the the truth but obviously it is wishful thinking.

Just like the statements such as : working class women are not concerned about this - like this poster is an authority on working class women …. because they know some.

YY. This poster to me is reminiscent of a former poster.

yes... rather Eresh.

Very reminiscent.

And speaks with authority on behalf of several groups apparently. Working class women is just one, women in prisons is another, as are trans people and apparently all LGBT people.

Somehow I doubt that they actually speak for my female family members, or any of my family members that have been in prison (both male and female). But still, new posters may be swayed by their authoritative tones until they see there is no evidence to support their many statements.

And when posters google 'gish gallop'.

Somehow I doubt that they actually speak for my female family members

Those most likely considered 'working class' or those not.

@IvyTwines

I was a Labour Party member until recently and I quit over this. I didn't vote at the last election. They have, with a few individual exceptions who are not being supported by the leadership, been completely captured by this ideology, ironically one of the most conservative belief systems to have arisen in the UK in my lifetime. If they don't get some adults back in the room soon, they can fuck off, as far as I'm concerned.

Agree

You've gotta love an advocate for male supremacism trying to paint women as the extremists.

I've never seen such desperation, it's hilarious.

Seriously, do you not realise how this looks to the younger generations

Haha!!

Despite addressing the biggest gathering of women in history, many of whom are mothers, on a site called Mumsnet, it's still badminton who is the real authority on our youth. 🤣

And all the Tories have to do is to ask Labour MPs to define the word woman.

As a previous poster said, it's the work of a moment to make an MP look utterly stupid and horribly untrustworthy because they can't define women, man, lesbian, etc. I'd also love to see them define nonbinary. That should do it.

just a little message for barleybadminton, I've been sitting here an hour reading thru all this.

If you believed everything you are saying you wouldn't be saying it so much, your posts stink of othering, its a way of showing your disdain and your cognitive dissonance about how tiny a minority you are actually in.

calling everyone middle class, well I am not I was raised in a council estate, I am a single mum on full benefits and the most I have ever earned is 17k a year, so your wrong and you know it.

saying we are all old farts and the kids are all Gender woo woo, well I am in my early 40s and my kid is in secondary school, he thinks its all BS too, there's over 1000 kids in his school and none of them are trans, its a crap school anyway there was a police van outside it the other day, most of the students are ethnic minorities and no one with any money would send their kids there so I think its safe to say they are working class, there's a few proud lesbians there and a smaller number of gays, none of that gender woo woo.

the reality is Trans ideology is middle class, its a trend amongst the poorly educated and confused kids whom are really trying to reject gender roles but are doing so in a completely confused way, probably because they got raised in a ever increasingly gendered world pink for girls blue for boys, boys toys and girls toys etc that they dont actually know how to reject it but only to embrace the other side and its disgusting that a sexist gender biased world is leading them by the hand the whole way, teaching lesbians and tom boys etc that they are really men born in the wrong body is just bloody insulting and blatant sexism.

and as more and more people, children come of age and de-transition and the damage all this has done to them and their bodies becomes increasingly apparent as more and more court cases are filed. the more it will all come out in the wash that this movement is awful and very likely imho was pushed by those seeking to profit in the first place from the unnecessary drugs and treatments thrown at kids who needed mental help, understanding or just plan time to get used to their sexed bodies.

at the moment the TRAs are cancelling the de-transitioners but with the numbers of kids and teenagers on this bandwagon now the TRAs will not be able to keep it up much longer and you know that barleybadminton, you know this movement is on borrowed time and that you cant persecute people for believing in reality forever, so keep on bleating to yourself if it reassures you, your not fooling anyone else you just look deluded.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

How do think the majorty of LGB people, many of whom have called themselves Queer for decades, feel about a bunch of straight people

The proportion of the queer movement which is to all intents and purposes straight is probably about the same as the proportion of the GC movement, if not more. You are in cloud cuckoo land.

I think that's missing the point? Straight GC people are not calling appropriating a name from the gay community. I don't think this poster was saying that straight people can't be allies, just that when they commandeer language for their own purposes, at the expense of gay people, then they can't.