Gender nonsense will be the Tories secret weapon

[bellinisurge]

To my mind, the only way the Tories can get themselves out of their self made mess is to shine a light on gender woo woo in the Labour Party. I'm guessing that was behind Wes Streeting's tentative "maybe we shouldn't say burn the witch all the time".
How can they not see how vulnerable they are when Liz Truss has become a more appealing prospect for women's rights.
Jesus.

Who do they think are having to share showers with male prisoners? It's certainly not the ultra woke middle class champagne socialists pretending to care about the working class but rather the single parent mother who can't afford a TV licence.

@CorrBlimeyGG

You know women's rights is far bigger than you not liking trans people don't you? What is Liz Truss' voting record on employment rights, benefit cuts, cuts to public services and healthcare? They all affect women far more than any trans woman will.

What has the original post to do with 'not liking trans people'?

I do enjoy how people think a boring document put out by a law firm that probably no-one ever read until gender critical people picked up on it was some masterclass secret strategy document despite the fact it was published years after legislation was passed granting trans rights. It's pure David Icke, find some think tank report somewhere no-one read and declare it to be a masterplan for global domination

Yes, I’d be trying to discount a document that was so damaging to my cause too if I were TRA…

I don't expect it will be the key election issue either. However it's very easy right now to overlook the size of this government's majority and the reasons behind them winning that majority.

I think it's pretty ignorant and arrogant to think Labour can march in and win back some of those lost seats purely on the back of Johnson's current unpopularity - especially when there's still more than two years to go. Labour face a massive uphill job and they're going to need all the help they can get but, until they learn to stop treating women as human shields, then I for one will not be lifting a finger.

Just so people can decide for themselves, this is the Denton’s document www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

This is an article on it by James Kirkup www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

I think if people actually start discussing this on doorsteps to the candidates, it will start sending a message that it IS an issue that is needing attention. Not ignoring it with platitudes and admonishments.

I think it will be a key issue tbh. Look how many people have woken up to what this ideology actually means since the last election. That’s not going to stop. It’s a tidal wave. Every day I see more open discussion on SM and comments and opinions being allowed to stand that would have been viciously attacked just a year ago. Even here on MN discussions/comments stand that would have been deleted not that long ago. Imagine where we will be in a year or two.

I am sure that the latest Transgender Law Center document laying out the recommendations (many upfront manipulation tactics) to gain a better reception for messaging of the more extreme trans rights messages will also prove a ‘boring’ document.

It even uses some techniques Denton’s suggested that have been used too.

So boring these documents.

@justaftb

If exploiting voters on this issue means reforming the GRA, rejecting self-ID, clarifying that single-sex means single-sex, ensuring that male prisoners are not housed in women's prisons, ensuring that must schools inform parents in situations where their child is saying they are now a boy/girl, regulating the medicalisation of children, banning any surgery related to gender dysphoria on the under-18s, then I'm happy to be exploited.

Yes. I'll do it. Never voted Tory in my life, I will vote for women's rights if they will safeguard women's (and children's) rights.

Labour are going to have to either wise up to this issue or face being the party of eternal opposition.

Imagine where we will be in a year or two.

Over I imagine. Just look at the global outpouring of support after MJ Rodriguez won a Golden Globe - it's clear which way the world is heading and even younger members of the Tory Party are waking up to that.

The right wing press will probably get bored in the next year or so and decide to pick on someone else, they are clearly running out of steam. Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women. The more moderates and leftists will drift away from the GC movement as it becomes ever more extreme - you can a;ready see this happening with Ruth Serwotka's recent comments. The splits and infighting will intensify, the far right will be all over things attempting to recruit, there'll be a couple of humiliating losses in the courts and the younger generation of trans inclusive feminists will start taking up their places in the media, political parties, think tanks and women's organisations.

I think it's safe to say the gender critical movement has peaked, and unless Johnson quits and we end up with someone even further to the right in charge of the Tories then there will be no legislation in support of GC demands. I'm sure the diehards will remain and become ever more extreme in both their tactics and ideology but this issue has had 6/7 years to resonate with the public now and it hasn't really flown. Even Murdoch is likely to get bored. Still you'll always have Putin.

It won’t be enough by itself, but when they get rid of Boris, and get a new leader in so it looks like things have changed, getting Keir and the rest of them to beclown themselves by saying a few more stupid things about cervices will help put them over the edge.

Nobody wants to be governed by clowns.

@barleybadminton

Imagine where we will be in a year or two.

Over I imagine. Just look at the global outpouring of support after MJ Rodriguez won a Golden Globe - it's clear which way the world is heading and even younger members of the Tory Party are waking up to that.

The right wing press will probably get bored in the next year or so and decide to pick on someone else, they are clearly running out of steam. Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women. The more moderates and leftists will drift away from the GC movement as it becomes ever more extreme - you can a;ready see this happening with Ruth Serwotka's recent comments. The splits and infighting will intensify, the far right will be all over things attempting to recruit, there'll be a couple of humiliating losses in the courts and the younger generation of trans inclusive feminists will start taking up their places in the media, political parties, think tanks and women's organisations.

I think it's safe to say the gender critical movement has peaked, and unless Johnson quits and we end up with someone even further to the right in charge of the Tories then there will be no legislation in support of GC demands. I'm sure the diehards will remain and become ever more extreme in both their tactics and ideology but this issue has had 6/7 years to resonate with the public now and it hasn't really flown. Even Murdoch is likely to get bored. Still you'll always have Putin.

Your comments actually disgust me at you glee over women loosing their rights, and being forced into situations that puts them in danger. Do you ever stop for a second and think about the women throughout the world who are affected by this? You know the ones who have been attacked, raped, forced out of public life? Or do they not matter? Are they just inconsequential to you? Disgusting and to come and here with your smugness, it absolutely shows your true colours, everyone here can see you for what you are.

Fwiw you live in a blinkered world, out here in the real world people are pissed off about this men included and people are waking up the the scale of damage that is being inflicted. The tide is turning of that I have no doubt.

I think the key thing is that it’s almost impossible to respect someone who spouts genderwoo. And that’s true whether you’re unfamiliar with it, and think it’s horseshit, or you’re very familiar with it, and know it’s horseshit, and even for a good chunk of people in between.

And I do also think people want to respect their political leaders on some level. I suspect contempt to be a killer for political aspirations the same way it’s a relationship killer. I also think the degree of public contempt for gender woo peddlers is growing all the time.

Fwiw you live in a blinkered world, out here in the real world people are pissed off about this men included and people are waking up the the scale of damage that is being inflicted. The tide is turning of that I have no doubt.

Believe me I know about the 'men included' bit, they fast seem to be dominating this particular offshoot of feminism.

My levity is really only intended to mask my horror at the world some people want and the impact that would have on women. That people can even consider supporting the Tory Party in the name of feminism is truly horrifying given how they have demolished the lives of many lone mothers and other women. I do not believe trans rights pose a threat to women. I believe gender critical ideology and the willingness of gender critical feminists to support the conservative right does.

Once even more damage is done to women's rights by the introduction of self-ID and more and more people are aware of what it means, it will be even more difficult and take years, if ever, to roll it back.

I think the key thing is that it’s almost impossible to respect someone who spouts genderwoo

That's it, allmywhat. I used to rate Lisa Nandy. Now I'd find it hard to look her in the eye if I met her. And when it's a male MP spouting off, like David Lammy, I just assume they are mysoginists. My own MP has thrown aside her principles and hides behind 'as Keir Starmer said'. Pathetic. I feel real contempt for them.

Ignored the rest of my post I see. No surprise really. There's no excuses that will wash when your ok with women being stuck in prison with rapists.

Totally agree.

Wes Streetings comments the other day do seem to signal that Labour has fucking finally realised that the 'we don't want your bigoted vote anyway' tactic is never going to win an election. But they need to act quickly now if they want to turn around the absolute mess they have created wrt alienating half the electorate by basically saying they don't give a shit about women's rights.

@justaftb

Once even more damage is done to women's rights by the introduction of self-ID and more and more people are aware of what it means, it will be even more difficult and take years, if ever, to roll it back.

This is exactly it. When this all started it was to accommodate a very small number of genuine males, now it's thrown open to everyone and as the evidence is showing women and girls are being harmed, people are waking up, the tide is turning.

Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women.

You think that what has been happening in Ireland, Canada and the US is 'no significant consequences for women'?

Says it all really I guess........

@KettyLeMew I applaud you, you say what I’m thinking at last someone who says the truth about what’s happening to this country. Thankyou👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@barleybadminton

Imagine where we will be in a year or two.

Over I imagine. Just look at the global outpouring of support after MJ Rodriguez won a Golden Globe - it's clear which way the world is heading and even younger members of the Tory Party are waking up to that.

The right wing press will probably get bored in the next year or so and decide to pick on someone else, they are clearly running out of steam. Self ID will pass in even more countries with no significant consequences for women. The more moderates and leftists will drift away from the GC movement as it becomes ever more extreme - you can a;ready see this happening with Ruth Serwotka's recent comments. The splits and infighting will intensify, the far right will be all over things attempting to recruit, there'll be a couple of humiliating losses in the courts and the younger generation of trans inclusive feminists will start taking up their places in the media, political parties, think tanks and women's organisations.

I think it's safe to say the gender critical movement has peaked, and unless Johnson quits and we end up with someone even further to the right in charge of the Tories then there will be no legislation in support of GC demands. I'm sure the diehards will remain and become ever more extreme in both their tactics and ideology but this issue has had 6/7 years to resonate with the public now and it hasn't really flown. Even Murdoch is likely to get bored. Still you'll always have Putin.

How naive you are.

Women are realising the consequences of all this and my god, are they angry!

@barleybadminton

Fwiw you live in a blinkered world, out here in the real world people are pissed off about this men included and people are waking up the the scale of damage that is being inflicted. The tide is turning of that I have no doubt.

Believe me I know about the 'men included' bit, they fast seem to be dominating this particular offshoot of feminism.

My levity is really only intended to mask my horror at the world some people want and the impact that would have on women. That people can even consider supporting the Tory Party in the name of feminism is truly horrifying given how they have demolished the lives of many lone mothers and other women. I do not believe trans rights pose a threat to women. I believe gender critical ideology and the willingness of gender critical feminists to support the conservative right does.

Fighting against the harmful religion-like gender identity ideology is far from just a feminist issue - hence the 'men included'. The men included are gay men, men working in education/welfare/health, men who are lawyers, men who are polices officers, men who are doctors and more. I can name you men in all of these categories.

As one of the early responses said and has been repeated, there are no women's rights if men can be women. That people can even consider supporting a party that will allow men to be women is truly horrifying.

The Tories will use it like the Republicans use abortion in the states- to twist people into voting against their own interests.

It’s not like they care about women’s rights or women’s lives. It’s just a convenient fulcrum.

That’s why there has been so much interested in making this area a polarised and bitter zero sum game.

Locking the women and the trans people ina gladiatorial fight means no disruption to who holds the power and a juicy little spectacle to enjoy watching to boot.