the breast milk trade

[Bindelj]

Dear all, I am investigating the commercial breast milk trade in the UK. I wrote this about the situation in Cambodia 4 years ago (www.truthdig.com/articles/an-example-of-capitalism-literally-milking-the-poor). Horrific. The way things are going we will be seeing desperately poor women in the UK being coerced into selling milk. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of this issue? If so, I am on [email protected] or please respond here. Many thanks.

Nope. I did no such thing.

I seem to be hallucinating the same posts Digger is seeing...

Nah, still there.

@Helleofabore
And you are living in a dream if you believe it won't happen.

Well if you think so many women are such monsters as to starve their own children, then a minor thing like a ban isn’t going to stop a person so depraved is it? Especially since you’ve also said the ban you are envisioning would only criminalise the buyer, not the seller. As we can’t have mothers ripped from their children and put in prison just for selling breastmilk. So these women would break no law by continuing to sell breastmilk...there’s no deterrent.

As I have said the sale of breastmilk is already happening. A ban will drive it to the black market. And what is a key characteristic of the black market? Everything sells for a much higher price.

So, if you truly think mothers are out there starving their children so they can sell breastmilk, then a ban which only criminalises the buying of breastmilk will have no deterrent to stop these women from selling breastmilk AND will increase the financial incentive by sending the £ per ounce value of breastmilk soaring upwards...making the temptation to starve their baby even harder to resist.

Has this been posted? Apologies if it has.

www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/business/breast-milk-products-commercialization.html

“We are deeply concerned that women will be coerced into diverting milk that they would otherwise feed their own babies,” the Black Mothers’ Breastfeeding Association wrote in an open letter in January. Medolac, which said it was working with the Clinton Foundation and wanted to encourage breast-feeding by making it financially attractive, abandoned its plan.

So, you believe the Black Mothers’ Breastfeeding Association is also fear mongering?

@KimikosNightmare
Lying about age/rich/successful have not specifically been brought to court yet so it is unknown whether a jury would consider it to be rape or not.

But I think if a woman is specifically looking for a sperm donor with certain qualifications and a man lies and says he meets these qualifications to trick her into sex, then I think that is rape.

Legally, it’s a grey area. You can think it’s not rape as equally as I can think it is rape. But until a jury decides, it is yet to be determined.

I like how you've pitched it as a deliberate choice women will be making, in order to attack Helle.

It's hardly necessary that a new mother be "depraved" to end up underfeeding her own child because she's ended up pumping milk for money.

Part of the role of a health visitor (where they still exist!) is to check in on mothers and that their babies are thriving, because between bad advice and mistakes, babies can end up underfed. Without the complication of a woman trying to pump milk for others because she thinks the money is important for the family's other needs

Well if you think so many women are such monsters as to starve their own children, then a minor thing like a ban isn’t going to stop a person so depraved is it?

Empress, again you are the one using hyperbole and overly emotive language here. I am not suggesting that a mother may even deliberately starve their child.

I have stated that there is inherent dangers in these transactions. You remain completely unable to acknowledge the risks involved.

@Helleofabore

Has this been posted? Apologies if it has.

www.nytimes.com/2015/03/21/business/breast-milk-products-commercialization.html

“We are deeply concerned that women will be coerced into diverting milk that they would otherwise feed their own babies,” the Black Mothers’ Breastfeeding Association wrote in an open letter in January. Medolac, which said it was working with the Clinton Foundation and wanted to encourage breast-feeding by making it financially attractive, abandoned its plan.

So, you believe the Black Mothers’ Breastfeeding Association is also fear mongering?

Yes. Fear mongering. Regulation is how to prevent coercion and exploitation. Banning and it going back market is the surest way to exploitation and coercion.

Black market.

@Helleofabore

Well if you think so many women are such monsters as to starve their own children, then a minor thing like a ban isn’t going to stop a person so depraved is it?

Empress, again you are the one using hyperbole and overly emotive language here. I am not suggesting that a mother may even deliberately starve their child.

I have stated that there is inherent dangers in these transactions. You remain completely unable to acknowledge the risks involved.

I acknowledge there are risks. But my opinion is that regulation is how you address these risks. A ban will only sweep these risks under the carpet where they will remain unsolved and still impact women.

Well if you think so many women are such monsters as to starve their own children, then a minor thing like a ban isn’t going to stop a person so depraved is it? Especially since you’ve also said the ban you are envisioning would only criminalise the buyer, not the seller. As we can’t have mothers ripped from their children and put in prison just for selling breastmilk.

Extreme hyperbole ALERT!!!

Let's see:
monsters, starve, ban, depraved, criminalise, mothers ripped from their children and put in prison.

Not sure you could fit much more in that argument.

To repeat my statement.

Tell us again exactly what regulations are going to be put in place to ensure that a mother does not reprioritise the milk meant for her child to go for financial gain?

But loving the flamboyant strawman that you built.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I like how you've pitched it as a deliberate choice women will be making, in order to attack Helle.

It's hardly necessary that a new mother be "depraved" to end up underfeeding her own child because she's ended up pumping milk for money.

Part of the role of a health visitor (where they still exist!) is to check in on mothers and that their babies are thriving, because between bad advice and mistakes, babies can end up underfed. Without the complication of a woman trying to pump milk for others because she thinks the money is important for the family's other needs

So your argument is that women are too stupid to know when their baby is adequately fed? Again, you have such a low opinion of women.

And just to point out the OP:

Dear all, I am investigating the commercial breast milk trade in the UK. I wrote this about the situation in Cambodia 4 years ago (www.truthdig.com/articles/an-example-of-capitalism-literally-milking-the-poor). Horrific. The way things are going we will be seeing desperately poor women in the UK being coerced into selling milk.

Tell us again exactly what regulations are going to be put in place to ensure that a mother does not reprioritise the milk meant for her child to go for financial gain?

Tell you again. Ok. The usual child neglect laws should suffice. Done.

@Helleofabore

And just to point out the OP:

Dear all, I am investigating the commercial breast milk trade in the UK. I wrote this about the situation in Cambodia 4 years ago (www.truthdig.com/articles/an-example-of-capitalism-literally-milking-the-poor). Horrific. The way things are going we will be seeing desperately poor women in the UK being coerced into selling milk.

And? OP is assuming the U.K. would go the exact same way as Cambodia. Piss poor journalism.

Well, I doubt that Julie resorts to such crap hyperbolic and emotive outpourings as we have seen from you today, Empress.

But carry on.

So your argument is that women are too stupid to know when their baby is adequately fed? Again, you have such a low opinion of women.

Well, just today, I found out that some women don't know how to use frozen breastmilk to improve the nutritional value of meals for a baby on solids or a weaned toddler, so no, I don't think first-time mothers can magically identify the warning signs of a baby no longer following his or her growth curve.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes
I don't think first-time mothers can magically identify the warning signs of a baby no longer following his or her growth curve.

There is no magic needed to access this knowledge. It’s very simple and straight forward. So again. You are claiming mothers, especially first time mothers, are too stupid to know if their baby is adequately fed.

@Helleofabore

Well, I doubt that Julie resorts to such crap hyperbolic and emotive outpourings as we have seen from you today, Empress.

But carry on.

Lol. So “horrific” and “coerced” and “desperately poor” and “capitalism literally milking the poor” are neither emotive nor hyperbole?

It's sometimes quite hard to tell if your baby has been adequately fed, Empress. What signs did you go by to check?

It's absolutely not about being 'stupid', that's really offensive.

And again you are the one using this denigrating language empress.

I don't think first-time mothers can magically identify the warning signs of a baby no longer following his or her growth curve.

This is actually a very valid point. And it certainly doesn't mean that a mother is 'stupid' to not pick up these issues.

Your immediate reaction to anyone disagreeing with you is to construct hyperbolic and incredibly emotively described straw men and to then use this 'absolutist' style argument that denigrates women.

@ArabellaScott

It's sometimes quite hard to tell if your baby has been adequately fed, Empress. What signs did you go by to check?

Weight and wet nappies. Any woman can do this. Women are not stupid.

@ArabellaScott

It's absolutely not about being 'stupid', that's really offensive.

I agree.. I find that comment incredibly offensive.

And by what increment do you think a baby's weight increases after one feed, Empress?

Did you ever have a baby suspected of having weight gain issues? Failure to thrive? Do you have the first inkling of what goes on?