Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

999 replies

daisiesonmydress · 03/01/2022 12:05

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Helleofabore · 04/01/2022 17:29

And again.

What is your expertise?

Why should anyone listen to you?

EmpressCixi · 04/01/2022 17:30

Because if you had any idea about uterus tranplants between women, you would also know that they are generally temporary in nature because they are unsustainable.

Sustainability, not sure what you mean by that? As a fertility treatment the objective is to provide a womb for the recipient to them carry a baby successfully to live birth. 10+ live births from UTx between women, including since 2018 from cadaver donor. Not sure that “sustainability” is the correct measure of success.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:31

Ah! So no men then.

EmpressCixi · 04/01/2022 17:31

@Helleofabore

And again.

What is your expertise?

Why should anyone listen to you?

Et tu Hel?
Helleofabore · 04/01/2022 17:31

The fact is it’s still biologically permanently done to a male body such that it is no longer biologically male.

This is philosophical thinking.

A male with all these alterations, remains male. Till they day they die. Just with a multitude of alterations.

HaroldMeeker · 04/01/2022 17:33

Gosh, I think the much better solution would be to simply transplant the male's brain into a female donor's body. It's been done before. I saw it on "The Man With Two Brains", a marvellous documentary presented by Steve Martin, from a few decades ago. Simples!

FlyingOink · 04/01/2022 17:35

It’s too much to engage in a full on biology lesson, but my point stands saying if you are biologically born a male you will die a biological male is too broad and open to argument. No, that point doesn't stand, you haven't provided any argument for it being "too broad" either.

There is lots of variation in biology, so what if a MtF voice, breasts, vagina, vulva, labia, uterus, voice etc are all feminised by surgery. Exactly, it's just a variation in men. A post surgical man is still a man.

So what if it’s hormone or laser surgery removing the body and facial hair.
Exactly, this is just aesthetics.

So what if puberty blockers result in female levels of muscle and bone density.
These drugs result in physical damage, there's no "so what" here I'm afraid.

The fact is it’s still biologically permanently done to a male body yep

such that it is no longer biologically male. Says who?

The human in question doesn’t have to be exactly, biologically a female, to not be biologically male at death. This doesn't mean anything. Everyone is either male or female.

Even today, the majority of the visible and many of the internal biological markers of a woman are in fact present by death if you are MtF
No. This is not true.

so I don’t think that one can safely say if you’re born a male you biologically stay male until you die. Too much can be done. So much of your external and internal biology can in fact be altered, be feminised.
You absolutely can "safely say" that a male remains a male, as there is no way to make him female. Feminised aesthetically, not female.

You don't half chat a load of shit.

UltraVividLament · 04/01/2022 17:35

Google is your friend too, @EmpressCixi. You are the one making the claim that a uterus and cervix has been successfully implanted into a male (human, in case of any doubt). The onus is on you to provide some evidence to back up what you're claiming. If you can't, or won't, then people will draw their own conclusion with regard to the veracity of your claim.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:36

And don't forget Heinlein's writing of the 59s on. He, and others, had mens brains in womens bodies quite a few times.

Oddly never, as far as I remember, women's brains in a man's body. Wonder why that was?

allmywhat · 04/01/2022 17:37

It’s too much to engage in a full on biology lesson

omg actually screaming.😂

Yes. I dare say it would be a tad too much.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:40

Sadly I have already done the reading. I just want to know what Empress has read so I can see if there is a glimmer of logic in it.

TheWeeDonkey · 04/01/2022 17:43

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I think we need receipts for this assertion...

In addition, a uterus including cervix can and has been successfully implanted in transwomen- attaching it to the neovagina and linking into the pelvic circulatory system which is the same in men and women anyway. We are only a few years from transwomen being able to get pregnant.

Fuck me I thought Josef Mengele had died! 😱
EmpressCixi · 04/01/2022 17:43

@Helleofabore

Google is your friend. It’s been discussed already for around 3yrs by my estimation

Discussed is meaningless.

Many things are 'discussed' doesn't mean they are going to be approved. And it is also meaningless how long they have been discussed for.

ah, so you ask me to summarise the various ethical discussions and post to MN for you to get a feel whether MtF might ever be approved for UTx surgeries and infertility treatments. And when I simply refuse to educate you, you dismiss all such ethical discussions to date as “meaningless” So you are not truly interested in the past and current bioethics discussions on this subject, are you? You just wanted me to go down a bunny trail so you could then say “oh it’s meaningless it will never be approved” (by your estimation of something you havent even read).
allmywhat · 04/01/2022 17:44

What an absolutely fantastic thread by the way, I loved reading it. Very educational as well as amusing. I hope it keeps going.

ArabellaScott · 04/01/2022 17:45

Has anyone done jellyfish yet?

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:45

No sweetie. We just want to know what you are basing your claptrap on.

I could do with a laugh. And if it turns out you have a point I'll discuss it with you, honestly, in depth. Possibly ad nauseum

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:46

@ArabellaScott

Has anyone done jellyfish yet?
Nah! Haven't even been offered a seahorse.
AlfonsoTheGoat · 04/01/2022 17:47

Or clownfish? Or DSDs?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 04/01/2022 17:47

Empress, you seem to be labouring under a misapprehension. No-one is asking you to summarise. You've been doing that already.

We'd like direct links to these discussions so we can review them for ourselves

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:47

No. Nothing.

[Sigh]

allmywhat · 04/01/2022 17:49

And when I simply refuse to educate you

this is too good

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 04/01/2022 17:50

@allmywhat

And when I simply refuse to educate you

this is too good

And she spelled "edumacate" wrong!
AlfonsoTheGoat · 04/01/2022 17:50

I'm still waiting for the peer reviewed journal articles about cervical and uterine implants into transwomen.

I suspect that it will be a long wait so I feel justified in calling @EmpressCixi's claim about this - as well as many other things - magical thinking.

Helleofabore · 04/01/2022 17:51

No. I am saying that regardless of whether these discussions are being had, it doesn't mean they are going to be approved.

I am not disagreeing that they are being discussed. I see a great deal of ethical issues that will be rather hard to overcome in the human rights side of this discussion.

Because, this is experimentation on human beings that is a rather large leap from just embryo experimentation.

Please do tell us..... how many of these tiny humans will die during the experimentation phase? How many are acceptable for the agenda of allowing males to gestate a human?

Tell us again why males need to gestate a human? Because.... they want to? What benefit is this to the child?

EmpressCixi · 04/01/2022 17:51

@FlyingOink
Disagree. Biology is more than genetics of male and female. It includes external and internal function, structure, physical appearance & behaviour, etc.

the scientific study of the life and structure of plants and animals
the way in which the body and cells of a living thing behave

Biologically is a very broad term.

Swipe left for the next trending thread