If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

Yes, they knew nucleic acid existed. But DNA is one specific type of nucleic acid. Which was discovered in 1953. I’m going by peer reviewed publication date which is standard.

This is basic stuff people can look up for themselves, but keep on spouting nonsense

I sit corrected Hellofabore

Empress has indeed sparsely sprinkled part truths amongst those misinformed posts.

@EmpressCixi

I rather think many of you are simply not up to date with the more recent developments.

Or even those of 150+ years ago 🙃

@EmpressCixi

I rather think many of you are simply not up to date with the more recent developments.

Ok.

Post the links to prove your assertions.

Otherwise, stop spreading misinformation.

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term. It is theoretically possible. It is only a matter of time and scientific advances. They might need a ECS due to pelvic morphology, but so what. It been long established that “getting pregnant” doesn’t exclude IVF nor does “giving birth” exclude non vaginal births.

By what claim do you have any expert knowledge on the complexity of the female reproductive system and all the relevant interactions governed by the body ?

We have seen plenty of males claim this 'development' because they simply cannot comprehend how the female body works.

Again, who are you to claim such expertise? Your credibility is very low at the moment.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I sit corrected Hellofabore

Empress has indeed sparsely sprinkled part truths amongst those misinformed posts.

Yes, they knew nucleic acid existed. But DNA is one specific type of nucleic acid. Which was discovered in 1953. I’m going by peer reviewed publication date which is standard.

No, they knew what DNA consisted of much earlier, some sort of polymer of the deoxyribose nucleic acid (DNA) nucleotides. It was the three dimensional structure which was elucidated in 1953.

Fun fact... there are different types of DNA. The watson-crick is the B form; A is also a right handed double helix but Z is left handed. And there's even a funky triplex DNA.

EmpressCixi

For instance Empress, tell us exactly

1. how this transplanted uterus will interact with the part of the female body that takes calcium from the female's bones to be used by the growing foetus. Exactly... not some handwaved - well it just does and those specialists will work it out?

2. how will that male reproductive system know when to produce relaxin and other specific hormones? Exactly now...

Shall I go and list more. This is just two such interactions. Will that transplant include a transplant of all control centres of the male body to allow it to be pregnant and to grow a baby to full term.

Frankly, that you think the pelvis is the biggest issue is fucking laughable.

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term. It is theoretically possible. It is only a matter of time and scientific advances

Just an FYI, I think we are only a few years away from a massive push to resist everything you’ve detailed in your post to aid males to carry foetuses as being desirable or possible (which resistance I will be heartily supporting) and a few more years away from a giant scandal involving the same nightmarish live experimentation on human foetuses that you are so sunny about.

@AlfonsoTheGoat
Again, function and form doesn’t matter if you get there by birth or by healthcare.

On this The pelvic circulatory systems in men and women are different as they lead to different organs. The recipient organs are not technically part of the circulatory system. After implantation, the circulatory system would in fact lead to the same organs.

I rather think many of you are simply not up to date with the more recent developments.

I think you have been reading someone's wishful thinking blog and some pretty unethical medical research papers.

Happy to be proven wrong though. Link us up. We are always here ready to read evidence.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I sit corrected Hellofabore

Empress has indeed sparsely sprinkled part truths amongst those misinformed posts.

That is typical of logical fallacies. There is very little in @EmpressCixi's posts that stands up to scrutiny: the big claims, which are the crux of the argument, are nonsense. It is also a logical fallacy to argue the small points and ignore the big points.

Even pigeons can be shown to exhibit logic of a sort.

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term. It is theoretically possible. It is only a matter of time and scientific advances

And please explain why you think that this will all happen and female infertility will not be resolved?

[quote EmpressCixi]@AlfonsoTheGoat
Again, function and form doesn’t matter if you get there by birth or by healthcare.

On this The pelvic circulatory systems in men and women are different as they lead to different organs. The recipient organs are not technically part of the circulatory system. After implantation, the circulatory system would in fact lead to the same organs.[/quote]
Would, not do, have or will.

EmpressCixi

Tell us again why any ethics board will agree to allowing a human to be grown in a bag?

It’s an aside, but I do love a bit of faux “impartiality” over my afternoon hot chocolate, the more so when it crumbles to dust within the space of an hour or so

Today has really delivered on that front.

@EmpressCixi, can you please share links to peer reviewed journal articles about cervical and uterine implants into transwomen? Thanks!

Again, function and form doesn’t matter if you get there by birth or by healthcare.

Form and function are two different things. One can attempt to imitate form through surgery but the function can never and will never be the same.

Well,
It’s too much to engage in a full on biology lesson, but my point stands saying if you are biologically born a male you will die a biological male is too broad and open to argument.

There is lots of variation in biology, so what if a MtF voice, breasts, vagina, vulva, labia, uterus, voice etc are all feminised by surgery. So what if it’s hormone or laser surgery removing the body and facial hair. So what if puberty blockers result in female levels of muscle and bone density. The fact is it’s still biologically permanently done to a male body such that it is no longer biologically male. The human in question doesn’t have to be exactly, biologically a female, to not be biologically male at death.

Even today, the majority of the visible and many of the internal biological markers of a woman are in fact present by death if you are MtF...so I don’t think that one can safely say if you’re born a male you biologically stay male until you die. Too much can be done. So much of your external and internal biology can in fact be altered, be feminised.

Some things are in the near future yes, like pregnancy for MtF. Breastfeeding has been done.

But changing XY to XX is about the only thing in the far future...as in 50+ years away.

@EmpressCixi

I rather think many of you are simply not up to date with the more recent developments.

Because they haven't happened yet? Or because they only exist in your mind?

I've enjoyed this thread immensely.

@Helleofabore

EmpressCixi

Tell us again why any ethics board will agree to allowing a human to be grown in a bag?

Google is your friend. It’s been discussed already for around 3yrs by my estimation.

@Helleofabore

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term. It is theoretically possible. It is only a matter of time and scientific advances

And please explain why you think that this will all happen and female infertility will not be resolved?

Damn, I mean ahead of resolving female infertility.

Which certainly is not 'only a few years away', so therefore this is another fallacy.

Because there is a fucking huge difference between implanting a uterus in a male and providing copious drugs to sustain that implant and it being viable for pregnancy.

Because if you had any idea about uterus tranplants between women, you would also know that they are generally temporary in nature because they are unsustainable.

But, yeah.... we are behind in scientific developments.

@Helleofabore

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term. It is theoretically possible. It is only a matter of time and scientific advances

And please explain why you think that this will all happen and female infertility will not be resolved?

? Why I think female infertility will not be resolved? Never said that.

Google is your friend. It’s been discussed already for around 3yrs by my estimation

Discussed is meaningless.

Many things are 'discussed' doesn't mean they are going to be approved. And it is also meaningless how long they have been discussed for.

Your estimation

So your best guess based on reading some science you didn't understand.

I don't want to Google it as there will be myriad hits from Marvel Comic Strip stories to hard science. I want to know which source you are depending on.

An altered male does not a female make. No further biology lesson or science fiction writing masterclass required.