If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

What wonderous discoveries await us in the next 7 pages....

@bordermidgebite

Actually will it? Gee whiz

So will missing bits , degradation , disruption and mixing

It may make it harder to sex but at least you are implicitly agreeing the bones owner had a sex that had not been changed

Of course I am. I never said sex could be changed. I have only argued that much of a persons biology can be changed to be other than their natal sex to mimic the opposite sex. Think of all the surgeries that can be and are done today. Think of how biology refers to everything from our appearance, to how we sound, behave, our hormones, etc. Much that is biologically human male can be erased.

Today, the one and only biological thing that cannot be changed is your DNA- XX or XY. That is why I think OP should replace “biologically” with “genetically” to be more accurate and specific.

@Helleofabore

What wonderous discoveries await us in the next 7 pages....

?

Reading with intrigue

@HaroldMeeker

Are you an archaeologist yourself, empress? You seem awfully fond of digging yourself into deep holes.

Meh. I’m still above the so called biology experts who had no idea that nasal bones existed.

Sophoclesthefox

Meh. I’m still above the so called biology experts who had no idea that nasal bones existed

You’re really not…

Only DNA analysis has 100% accuracy

Eh? Isn't determining sex 'complicated' as it's not apparently binary? So in fact it is simple and DNA analysis can confirm sex for certain?

Great! We have consensus!

Oooh I know, you're a proctologist!

@HaroldMeeker

Are you an archaeologist yourself, empress? You seem awfully fond of digging yourself into deep holes.

Boom tish!

You appear to think menopausal women are advised to do resistance exercise in order to build bone mass. I find that considerably worse than someone being unaware of some detail of skull structure.

Curtseys

@Sophoclesthefox

I’ve lost the will to live.

Someone please bury me, then come dig me up in a couple of hundred years when all this is over.

Can I come too?

Archeologists will be looking at male skeletons noting that it's a male skeleton with noted impact of surgery and unusual features indicating a male person who had surgery/took hormones. The same way that no amount of medication or surgery changes the sex of a person - they remain that sex, with cosmetic, surgical and chemical influences producing unusual features for that sex.

Of course I am. I never said sex could be changed. I have only argued that much of a persons biology can be changed to be other than their natal sex to mimic the opposite sex. Think of all the surgeries that can be and are done today. Think of how biology refers to everything from our appearance, to how we sound, behave, our hormones, etc. Much that is biologically human male can be erased.

No biology can't be changed. Taking artificial hormones is not changing a males biology, surgeries don't change his biology. His biology is how he reacts to cross sex hormones or to surgeries. How you sound is a result of your biology and the interaction of that with the environment (which includes artificial hormones, viruses, injuries, inhaling helium). Your biology hasn't changed.

FFS there’s the reading comprehension again:

Meh. I’m still above the so called biology experts who had no idea that nasal bones existed.

No, we know they exist - but you were arguing that surgery to remove humps and bumps on the nose was to the nasal bones! Nasal bones are the small structures at the bridge of the nose which support the cartilage and soft tissue. The alterations are mainly done to the cartilage - any changes to the nasal bone are to better support the changes to the cartilage! But the majority of what’s done in rhinoplasty involves soft tissue alteration.

That is not remotely the same as not knowing nasal bones exist.

You really need to work on your comprehension skills. Just like the misrepresentation of the study you posted, which didn’t say what you said it did.

Though I suppose you can change your bological fauna eg by taking antibiotics. And then there is the argument that we are communities of organisms, not individuals, controlled in part by our gut bacteria and toxoplasmosis infections...

@HaroldMeeker

Are you an archaeologist yourself, empress? You seem awfully fond of digging yourself into deep holes.

I'm about to change my biological fauna by eating a baked spud with paprika chicken. Does that make me a Spaniard?

Hang on! Isn't Empress the one who claimed:

I still think we are only a few years away from MtF being able to get pregnant and carry a baby to term.

When in actual fact we are still probably a 'few years away' from a human embryo being able to live past 14 days to 5 weeks.

Because that is what 'google' told me when I went and did what was instructed.

Hardly a few years away from any male being able to 'experiment' in any way with a human embryo being implanted at all. Except in someone's mind who is very heavily invested in this experiment coming to fruition.

And I never did find the Human Rights organisations having discussions about the ethics of doing this. Just niche academics. As I mentioned, THOSE discussions about growing human beings in bags, even implanted 'meat' bags, have been happening since 1924.

Again... Google was my friend.

And I think that some posters are really not quite as credible as they like to believe themselves.

@HaroldMeeker

I'm about to change my biological fauna by eating a baked spud with paprika chicken. Does that make me a Spaniard?

Claro que si

Today, the one and only biological thing that cannot be changed is your DNA- XX or XY. That is why I think OP should replace “biologically” with “genetically” to be more accurate and specific.

What nonsense. Transwomen do not have vaginas, they have a tube which vaguely approximates the look of them without any of the actual functions. They can't make eggs or, gestate a child or birth a child. They don't have female hormones in their body without artificial approximations being put in. Most walk like men as their pelvis can't change etc. etc. This is a ridiculous statement to make even for people whose puberty was halted at a young age (who will then suffer from long-term consequences which are not identical to those which women suffer). Bonkers statement.

When in actual fact we are still probably a 'few years away' from a human embryo being able to live past 14 days to 5 weeks.

Ahh... too distracted.

When in actual fact we are still probably a 'few years away' from a human embryo being able to live past 14 days to 5 weeks for experimental purposes.

And to be clear - a male carrying an embryo would be considered highly experimental.

Exactly Knee - a bit like the claims that transwomen have periods because they take oestrogen. In reality the female menstruated cycle is controlled by the intersection of at least six hormones in varying cycles. Taking oestrogen - and most MTF don’t Eve take progesterone - is nothing like approximating a female menstrual cycle at all, yet we get told “Today, the one and only biological thing that cannot be changed is your DNA”? Arrant nonsense.

*menstrual cycle

I'm glad other posters pointed out that Empress's nonsense about transmen who take or have taken blockers have big thick manly bones when we know that was an out and out lie.

Four hours of stacking boxes makes your bones thicker too apparently, so doing it full time must turn you into steel or something. Hey, I'm going for an x-ray for a laugh, shall we see how buff my bones are?

We've moved onto rhinoplasty for some reason.

Because if any alteration is made to the nose area, that will automatically outweigh the obvious size difference and the shape and the brow and the jaw and the rest of the bloody skeleton... Also if there are no eyelashes or lipstick on the skull, it's a male. I know this from watching cartoons. The girls always have lipstick and eyelashes, or sometimes a hair bow and eyelashes.