If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

The subtlety that you are missing, @EmpressCixi, is that the accuracy depends on the integrity and extent of the skull and pelvis. So, you'd need stats on dna analysis results compared to morphology techniques in cases where skull and pelvis bones are well preserved.

@Helleofabore

What I am disputing is the pp claim that any skull with an indication of having had a nose job will make an archaeologist conclude the skull is male.

Who said that?

all bordermidgebite Wed 05-Jan-22 09:14:06 If you decide to augment yourself to try and be female you still are not

When the archeologist digs you up they will say male with lots of plastic surgery

But those two statements are not the same?

@UltraVividLament

The subtlety that you are missing, *@EmpressCixi*, is that the accuracy depends on the integrity and extent of the skull and pelvis. So, you'd need stats on dna analysis results compared to morphology techniques in cases where skull and pelvis bones are well preserved.

That’s what the 80%-95% accuracy rate refers to. And, no I did not miss that. I just happen to think that it’s not that great. An error rate of 5-20% given the wrong sex.

Do you read your own posts?

@foxgoosefinch

But those two statements are not the same?

Not even vaguely 😀

I thought it was clear

A male person with surgery will look like a male person with surgery to the archeologist

@bordermidgebite

How many bodies do we have on this thread ? And how would we know they were missexed since we can't ask ? And why is it important?

You can't change sex
You can only tell sex from the bones , not gender
Sex remains when all else has faded away

Even with bones you have a good chance of getting the sex wrong. Only DNA analysis has 100% accuracy.

Are you an archaeologist yourself, empress? You seem awfully fond of digging yourself into deep holes.

It is like a strawman got built and burned right in front of us.

@Helleofabore

It is like a strawman got built and burned right in front of us.

I don’t think ive ever seen anything like it

@Helleofabore

It is like a strawman got built and burned right in front of us.

Self immolation, right before mine eyes.

@bordermidgebite

I thought it was clear

A male person with surgery will look like a male person with surgery to the archeologist

Not necessarily. Cosmetic surgery will actually make it even harder to sex a skeleton.

Juvenile bones tend to be difficult

Sex shouldn't matter to children anyway

I don't think there is a huge error rate with adult bones ? Especially since you can't exclude dna analysis from your toolset .

A tendency to ignore the evidence because of gender assumptions does sometimes happen -shows how dangerous gender is

What a weird tangent this thread is taking.

The original question was “if you are born male, you stay that way for the rest of your life, yes?”

And the answer to that still is “yes”, even if hundreds of years after you die, an archaeologist digs up your mouldering bones and is not certain until the DNA results come back of what sex you are.

Then they’ll get the DNA results and the answer to the original question will still be “yes”. You were male when you were born, died, were buried, rested in peace for years, were exhumed and briefly posed an interesting challenge to a future Tony Robinson. Male all the way through.

Actually will it? Gee whiz

So will missing bits , degradation , disruption and mixing

It may make it harder to sex but at least you are implicitly agreeing the bones owner had a sex that had not been changed

Let me get this straight.

Puberty blocked skeletons, yeah maybe they would get tricky because they have artificially missed the growth patterns of a normal pubertal human.

But adult transitioners you argue would be tricky too?

Because why?

@Sophoclesthefox

What a weird tangent this thread is taking.

The original question was “if you are born male, you stay that way for the rest of your life, yes?”

And the answer to that still is “yes”, even if hundreds of years after you die, an archaeologist digs up your mouldering bones and is not certain until the DNA results come back of what sex you are.

Then they’ll get the DNA results and the answer to the original question will still be “yes”. You were male when you were born, died, were buried, rested in peace for years, were exhumed and briefly posed an interesting challenge to a future Tony Robinson. Male all the way through.

yes, let's ditch this inane distraction.

The male skeleton remains male while the future archaeologist figures it out.

It’s not Schrödingers skeleton, somehow suspended between male and female until the results come in. The skeleton doesn’t change because of the uncertainty. Was it male? Yes? Then it still is, while you’re figuring it out.

This is such a bonkers argument I’m not entirely sure if the dental anaesthetic I had earlier today hasn’t worked it way up to my brain and caused some sort of hallucinatory fugue state in me.

I notice repeatedly that poor reading comprehension is always a hallmark of arguments by gender ideologists (and antivaxxers, conspiracists, etc.) They don’t read what is actually there - but what they want to believe is there.

No, the original question was
“ If born male you biologically stay a male until you die? yes?”

Since so much of one’s biology can be changed to mimic the other sex, this is a weak statement open to argument. Biology includes bone structure, voice, body hair, hormones, morphology of your flesh....which can all be altered to at the very least be no longer male.

Therefore it is more accurate to say that
If born male, you most probably will genetically stay a male until you die” because DNA cannot be altered at all. You are born XY you stay XY with today’s technology. In 75yrs, who knows? But most probably will still be the same.

The male skeleton remains male while the future archaeologist figures it out.

Yes, but the only accurate way to know whether it is male or female is through DNA testing. All other biological tests and markers are inaccurate and as a result wrongly sex 5-20% of skeletons.

I’ve lost the will to live.

Someone please bury me, then come dig me up in a couple of hundred years when all this is over.

And here we go with the 'biological' definition again.

It is a sleight of hand move. Plastic potato heads and all that.

And the mysterious not male / not female argument as well.

I reckon it would be easier to take that particular day off work - it may be enshrined in law but they could make life very difficult for you if you don't tow the line. I believe that politics really shouldn't enter the workplace but we are getting it forcefully rammed down our throats. Chest feeders, womb bearers it's nothing but woke mysogyny to remove women.