If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

I was responding to a stereotypical comment about myself, saying I am not a lady of leisure. I wasn’t calling anyone who stuck around on the thread that. Woke up with a chip on your shoulder did you?

Potato Head School of Biology....is that your alma mater then? Never heard of it

Ooh, sick burn, chief

Carry on. If you think you’re making a good impression, please by all means, crack on with your nutty theories. I enjoy it when people get sci-fi and real life confused because it really underlines which “side” is bringing the evidence.

Thank you Doubletoil… I was just off to look for those!

You see empress, there is quite an archive of studies that we have all read. That is why you ‘Google it’ advice is so very humorous.

What we want, is to know which studies you have found so compelling for your beliefs. Because there are always those we have not seen and are interested in discussing and dissecting.

Not posting your links tends to show everyone that you have nothing substantive to persuade others of your beliefs.

So if it was a pool and the child was at the poolside, you would think it fine to put a semi erect penis in a 9-year olds face (50cm away I think is was)???

How do you know it was semi-erect? Perhaps the observer mistook normal size variation for erectness. I think it’s a bit pearl clutchy to angst over a male person in a pool who might have a bit of stiffy. It’s like angsting over a female person in a pool who might have a bit period blood leakage. Not within their control. Not an example of perversion. And besides, are you arguing that there should not be mixed sex swimming pools?

[quote EmpressCixi]@Helleofabore
I did not say Viking warriors or any premodern society had puberty blockers. I said future archaeologists digging up transmen could very well identify them as male due to the current changes in bone structure observed as a result of puberty blockers.

Archaeologists have confused the sexes in the past even in populations with no puberty blockers was my point.

Have some more coffee, get that brain cell firing.[/quote]
But you have completely missed the point anyway.

You are wrong!

Females undertaking puberty blockers do NOT regain bone density.

doubletoil posted some studies. I am happy to post more.

@Helleofabore
Asking for female single sex spaces to be opened up to males?

Transmen asking for male single sex spaces to be opened up to them.

How do you know it was semi-erect? Perhaps the observer mistook normal size variation for erectness. I think it’s a bit pearl clutchy to angst over a male person in a pool who might have a bit of stiffy. It’s like angsting over a female person in a pool who might have a bit period blood leakage. Not within their control. Not an example of perversion. And besides, are you arguing that there should not be mixed sex swimming pools?

Do you even read what you write?

It was semi-erect because witnesses described it as semi-erect! And that persons criminal history described a pattern of behavior that confirmed it.

And a nine year old girl should not be seeing a male penis in a female single sex space.

It is absolutely nothing like ‘blood in the pool’. Sophocles called it correctly before. Open sexism.

Such a false comparison will get you nowhere.

@Helleofabore
Females undertaking puberty blockers do NOT regain bone density.

No they don’t. But that is not what I said. In fact the above is absolute nonsense. Drink some more coffee that brain cell is still asleep. Oh fuck it, happy to repeat. In bullet format.

• girls take puberty blockers
• result pelvis stays narrow like an adult males, does not widen into usual adult female configuration.
• girls then take hormone therapy as adult transmen
• result increased bone density and size, (bone density and size is affected by muscle mass and strength training or physical occupation)
• sone years later, say 2080 trans man dies. Hypothetical archaeologist digs them up, day in 3080 and poster claims they’ll cry “woman with plastic surgery”. Not necessarily I say. Because the bone structure and density even today is altered permanently by transgender healthcare. It’s not plastic, it’s not surgery. It’s real changes to their bones...which is all that will be left for a hypothetical future archaeologist.

@EmpressCixi

So if it was a pool and the child was at the poolside, you would think it fine to put a semi erect penis in a 9-year olds face (50cm away I think is was)???

How do you know it was semi-erect? Perhaps the observer mistook normal size variation for erectness. I think it’s a bit pearl clutchy to angst over a male person in a pool who might have a bit of stiffy. It’s like angsting over a female person in a pool who might have a bit period blood leakage. Not within their control. Not an example of perversion. And besides, are you arguing that there should not be mixed sex swimming pools?

How is a (semi) erect penis in anyway like period blood?! That is ridiculous

So with puberty blockers and hormone therapy actively, today changing the adult bone structure of an XX person to mimic an XY person. (They have not yet done same study on transwomen). This inability to tell the two apart without DNA tests is only going up get much harder than it already is.

Hooray for puberty blockers! We definitely need to give them to children who aren't old enough to understand the consequences if their use. We definitely need to stunt their brain at an absolutely crucial period of development for the human body, we definitely need to give them drugs which will highly possibly fuck their bone density for life.

That'll show those future archaeologists who just think they are so fucking clever.....

Don't give girls puberty blockers

That is hateful

It is forcing/encouraging children to take actions that physically harm them and sterilise them because you confirm their childish beliefs that they must be a boy because they don't fit as a girl

@Helleofabore
And a nine year old girl should not be seeing a male penis in a female single sex space.

What female single sex space? The original example given was a jacuzzi, which is typically mixed sex and no one gets into naked. Furthermore under16s should not even be in a jacuzzi as it’s dangerous to their health. So how is a 9yr old going to “see a penis” when said penis is under a swimming costume and under the froth of a jacuzzi that they can’t even get into?

Your example, was then a swimming pool...again typically mixed sex and not naked.

Just not understanding the outrage over a clothed stiffy and honestly the criminal history of the person was a) not mentioned and b) isn’t proof it was semi erect. If anything, it may only be proof that the person is violating parole conditions by being within 50cm of a child no matter what they are doing/wearing.

@EmpressCixi
There’s nothing wrong with having mixed sex swimming pools. That’s nothing to do with what happened in the case you’re discussing.
If I remember correctly the wi-spa case was a spa, not a public swimming pool and was supposedly single sex (female only), swimsuits optional. Most women (as in women without penises who never had a penis at any point in their lives) would have a major issue with a naked penis in a space where they were not expecting one, particularly if female children were also in that space. It’s not at all comparable to a semi-erect-swimsuit-covered penis in a mixed sex clothed swimming situation where mixed sex and clothed is what everyone is expecting.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with penises or even naked penises in a spa. But only if everyone in the vicinity is aware that it’s a space were naked penises will be visible and has decided that they are ok with that. And to be honest I would expect a mixed-sex swimsuit optional spa to be age restricted (R18). And I would anticipate that such as spa would not be particularly popular with women (meaning women without penises who never had a penis), at least not in the cultural contexts I have personally experienced.

@Livpool
How is a (semi) erect penis in anyway like period blood?!

Because both are not totally within the persons control. Men cannot completely decide to get erect or not get erect, the same way women cannot completely prevent period leakage.

@EmpressCixi

Apparently a naked person with a semi-erect penis tried to get into a jacuzzi next to a 9-year old girl at WiSpa, so this happens.

Under 16s should not be in jacuzzis. It’s a health and safety hazard to the child.

Knew it would be either the child or parents fault. Knew it!

Transmen asking for male single sex spaces to be opened up to them.

Which spaces?

Prisons?
Rape shelters?
Changing rooms with communal changing spaces and open showers?
Toilets?

Please be very specific which ones.

And provide the percentages of transitioned females insisting on this?

I think you will find that it is very few.

And that safeguarding is also based on sex (that immutable sex).

Females entering male spaces are not a risk to those males. They are taking a risk of being attacked themselves.

Males entering female spaces ARE a risk to those females. They are not risking attack by them entering the space.

Shall we post the sex crime statistics for males and include those for transitioned males? I have them to hand, and there is a new thread today with some stats from the USA too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4444977-USA-Almost-50-of-Trans-Inmates-in-Federal-Custody-for-Sex-Offences

These stats reflect the ones from the UK.

Your post shows you lack safeguarding knowledge and why women are fighting the impacts of the conflicts in rights for the protection of women and children.

Please do crack on… it is very familiar.

How do you know it was semi-erect? Perhaps the observer mistook normal size variation for erectness. I think it’s a bit pearl clutchy to angst over a male person in a pool who might have a bit of stiffy. It’s like angsting over a female person in a pool who might have a bit period blood leakage. Not within their control. Not an example of perversion. And besides, are you arguing that there should not be mixed sex swimming pools?

This was a female only section of a spa (the spa also has a male section and a mixed sex section) and there were young girls in there. Blokes comes in with a semi erect cock, literally in the face of young girls. This is apparently OK because this man identifies as a woman, and the women complaining are hateful bigots, actually no This didn't even happen at all, they are liars and hoaxers, evil far right witches!

Then it turns out this bloke is already a asex offender and wemustbrushthisunderthecarpetandneverspeakofitagain......

@Diggersaursarethebest
Well that clears up the confusion. So the example is not a usual mixed sex spa’s jacuzzi or swimming pool, but some naked single sex spa that is violating heath and safety by allowing naked children into jacuzzis. Not a spa I would go to at all.

@titchy
No, did not say child or parents “fault” if you must know I think it’s the spas fault. They would be legally liable if a child were harmed by going in a jacuzzi. They should have signs up and inform parents.

The example empress of the spa was referring to the WiSpa incident in LA.

Just not understanding the outrage over a clothed stiffy

I cannot believe I have just seen this?

You have no concept of safeguarding. You have no concept of women and children having any right at all at not being exposed to someone’s sex act!

You believe any male has the right to expose others to their state of arousal in public?

[quote EmpressCixi]@Livpool
How is a (semi) erect penis in anyway like period blood?!

Because both are not totally within the persons control. Men cannot completely decide to get erect or not get erect, the same way women cannot completely prevent period leakage.[/quote]
So… here we have it!

Males cannot control their arousal, especially in public!

MRA right here in our midst.

The mask.....it is a-slipping.......

More slowly than usual I have to say.

@Helleofabore
Transmen asking for male single sex spaces to be opened up to them.

Which spaces?

Google is your friend. And my point is there is equality in the asking of spaces to be opened up. It’s not just women’s spaces being opened up to the trans community. Obviously risk is a completely different issue but the proper thing to do with risks are to manage them.

They used to say “risk” was why you couldn’t have women join the armed forces or police force or be fire fighters. Risk to colleagues, risk to themselves from criminals, risks to not being strong enough to carry a victim from a burning building. These were all real risks. They weren’t made up. But the correct response wasnt to ban women from these professions due to risk, was it?

So why do we think it’s correct to do the same to transwomen? If risk can be managed for women to increase equality, then why can it not be managed for the equality of transwomen too?

Shall we also post the studies and statistics on flashing as being an entry point for other sex crimes too?

We also have those.

@Helleofabore
Males cannot control their arousal, especially in public!

It’s biology. Look it up. Nothing to do with rights btw.

@EmpressCixi I mean you could just go and look up the case in question. There’s a whole Wikipedia page about it, it made that much noise. The spa may well have had to change their rules about who and their covered or uncovered genitalia are allowed in which areas due to this incident. It seems like the sex(as in genitalia)-based segregated areas were working well for this particular business with their particular cultural context (Korean style spa in the Korea town district in Los Angeles) before this incident occurred.