If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

@Helleofabore

Ummmmm!! Testes is a pretty reliable indicator of male. Who has both testes and ovaries? You might want to check your facts there.

Please listen to people who have differences in sex development when they ask not to have their bodies used as ‘gotchas’ by any person.

Testes are a sure sign of a man, absence does not indicate a woman it is not a symmetrical argument.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

‘Sex is so much more complicated’

House!!!!

my bingo card is now complete

I do not know how people with disorders of sexual Development havent burned down the Internet yet

Damn beat me to it

@Theeyeballsinthesky

‘Sex is so much more complicated’

House!!!!

my bingo card is now complete

I do not know how people with disorders of sexual Development havent burned down the Internet yet

Nor do I. Someone I follow on twitter (with an intersex condition) just posted this.

Without doing a sex genetic screen you would never know someone's XY make up. Therefore you can never assign someone as being ‘male’ just because ‘he’ has a penis and a pair of testicles. Sex is so much more complicated that that

That is quite literally a load of bollocks.

Sex is easy peasy in almost all cases to assess by genitals alone.

If we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

Having the belief that you are somehow not the sex you were born is just that. A belief. In your head.

[quote HobgoblinGold]@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Without doing a sex genetic screen you would never know someone's XY make up. Therefore you can never assign someone as being ‘male’ just because ‘he’ has a penis and a pair of testicles. Sex is so much more complicated that that.[/quote]
Wuh?

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Without doing a sex genetic screen you would never know someone's XY make up. Therefore you can never assign someone as being ‘male’ just because ‘he’ has a penis and a pair of testicles. Sex is so much more complicated that that

That is quite literally a load of bollocks.

Sex is easy peasy in almost all cases to assess by genitals alone.

If we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

Having the belief that you are somehow not the sex you were born is just that. A belief. In your head.

True

I believe that you are either male or female as biology decides pre-birth. I think you can "identify" as a chocolate teapot if you want but you will be just that - saying you are a chocolate teapot without actually being one. I think by identifying as a female it infringes on biologically born females and their stories, spaces and our already reduced rights and freedoms already curtailed by men thus far.

I cannot say this to my employer though as I would probably be dismissed on discrimination-related grounds.

We are born female.
We are born male.

I do not believe we can change biological genders.
I believe a person can have surgery but I don't believe that makes them female.
Being female is a biological issue not a social construct and open to negotiation.
You can be a feminine male or a masculine female but you can't just swap your genders like they are a postcode or phone number.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Without doing a sex genetic screen you would never know someone's XY make up. Therefore you can never assign someone as being ‘male’ just because ‘he’ has a penis and a pair of testicles. Sex is so much more complicated that that

That is quite literally a load of bollocks.

Sex is easy peasy in almost all cases to assess by genitals alone.

If we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

Having the belief that you are somehow not the sex you were born is just that. A belief. In your head.

They actually used to genetically test. Guess what, no link between DSDs and presenting oneself at a gender clinic.

Initially the approach with [gender dysphoria] was similar to that for disorder of sex development, with a karyotype being routinely requested. An audit of UK clinics from 2013 to 2015 (Table 1) revealed no differences from cytogenetic surveys of the UK newborn population andelsewhere.Therefore, routine karyotyping of a child or adolescent with GD is not required unless any specific clinical features determine this to be necessary.

www.adc.bmj.com/content/103/7/631

They actually used to genetically test. Guess what, no link between DSDs and presenting oneself at a gender clinic

No, because gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder not a physical one like a DSD.

A man can't have "the hormones of a female" by taking estrogen. By definition, any hormones that work in a man's body are men's hormones.

A man taking female hormones is still a man!

He will still need a prostrate check whatever he wears or adds to his body. He will never be at risk from ovarian cancer or need a smear test.

But many trans women over 50 do need breast screening.

Chromosomal sex is only one definition of biological sex. Biological sex also encompasses other aspects including secondary, primary and biochemical aspects and some of those can be changed.

No one in the history of the world has ever changed their sex. And no one ever will.

Yet still women continue to birth babies - every single human being on the planet in fact.

That's a bit awks isn't it for all the flat earthers fact deniers.

Drat no edit button

Sex is not binary. Genetics, neurobiology, and hormones all play a role. A persons genitalia can vary throughout life depending on all the aforementioned (and more). This can me made more complex when there are differences between an individuals sexual characteristics versus what they feel inside. additionally, ascribing someones gender by simply what they have between there legs is reductionist and demonstrates complete limitation on the complexity of sex and gender. Transgender people are real and it is time we acknowledge this.. Defining or preventing someone from assigning there own sex identity based on misunderstood or defragemented scientific and dehumanizing

@Fieldofgreycorn that's because men do have some breast tissue, indeed rarely men do get breast cancer. The cross sex hormones taken by transwomen will increase that risk. It's got nothing to do with them being somehow more female.

@HobgoblinGold

Sex is not binary. Genetics, neurobiology, and hormones all play a role. A persons genitalia can vary throughout life depending on all the aforementioned (and more). This can me made more complex when there are differences between an individuals sexual characteristics versus what they feel inside. additionally, ascribing someones gender by simply what they have between there legs is reductionist and demonstrates complete limitation on the complexity of sex and gender. Transgender people are real and it is time we acknowledge this.. Defining or preventing someone from assigning there own sex identity based on misunderstood or defragemented scientific and dehumanizing

Well where to start with this one!

Who is denying trans people exist - certainly no one here.

And errr you seem to be saying sex and gender are the same thing. Ironically making you the reductionist. People's gender does not have to match their sex. Are you a secret transphobe or something?

@Whatsnewpussyhat

f we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

This is incorrect. Research has demonstrated differences in genetics between men and transwomen (amab) alongside lots of other differences. Bearing in mind these are just the differences that scientists know to look for.

[quote HobgoblinGold]@Whatsnewpussyhat

f we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

This is incorrect. Research has demonstrated differences in genetics between men and transwomen (amab) alongside lots of other differences. Bearing in mind these are just the differences that scientists know to look for.[/quote]
You've obviously got the links handy yes?

@PrincessNutella

A man can't have "the hormones of a female" by taking estrogen. By definition, any hormones that work in a man's body are men's hormones.

This doesn't make sense. Both male and female have the same basic hormone -oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone. They just differ in concentrations.

@HobgoblinGold

Sex is not binary. Genetics, neurobiology, and hormones all play a role. A persons genitalia can vary throughout life depending on all the aforementioned (and more). This can me made more complex when there are differences between an individuals sexual characteristics versus what they feel inside. additionally, ascribing someones gender by simply what they have between there legs is reductionist and demonstrates complete limitation on the complexity of sex and gender. Transgender people are real and it is time we acknowledge this.. Defining or preventing someone from assigning there own sex identity based on misunderstood or defragemented scientific and dehumanizing

I think you have put too much confidence in a blog post by Scientific America (or whatever).

Please tell us what the other sexes are needed to reproduce? Even the name of the other sexes needed to reproduce and exactly what they add to the creation of a human being.

@HobgoblinGold

Sex is not binary. Genetics, neurobiology, and hormones all play a role. A persons genitalia can vary throughout life depending on all the aforementioned (and more). This can me made more complex when there are differences between an individuals sexual characteristics versus what they feel inside. additionally, ascribing someones gender by simply what they have between there legs is reductionist and demonstrates complete limitation on the complexity of sex and gender. Transgender people are real and it is time we acknowledge this.. Defining or preventing someone from assigning there own sex identity based on misunderstood or defragemented scientific and dehumanizing

Your first sentence is incorrect.

The rest is just a bunch of words shoved together without regard to any of the constructs we have spent millennia devising so that humans can communicate e.g. meaning, grammar, fundamental honesty...

@Changelingbutonlyforme

This is going to depend on how you define ´biologically male’. Someone’s chromosomes are not going to change and they won’t magically acquire functioning female reproductive organs (no womb, no possibility of becoming pregnant). Once someone’s bones have finished growing they’re not going to shrink, and muscle mass is not going to reduce to typically female levels overnight (but it will change). But bone density could reduce and bodyfat/muscle ratio will change with hormone treatment. I think it’s easy to argue that trans women are not able to acquire all the different aspects of what it means to be biologically female, rather than arguing that they forever remain biologically male.

Seeing as to be biologically male means to have XY chromosomes, then it’s a perfectly valid statement!

[quote HobgoblinGold]@Whatsnewpussyhat

f we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

This is incorrect. Research has demonstrated differences in genetics between men and transwomen (amab) alongside lots of other differences. Bearing in mind these are just the differences that scientists know to look for.[/quote]
Go on then, show us the research. Oh, and articles from Pink News don’t count!

@titchy

You can look at this up yourself. It's freely available.

[quote HobgoblinGold]@Whatsnewpussyhat

f we were to genetically test all the males who claim to be women, do you honestly believe they will be found to be anything but the same xy as every other male who doesn't?

This is incorrect. Research has demonstrated differences in genetics between men and transwomen (amab) alongside lots of other differences. Bearing in mind these are just the differences that scientists know to look for.[/quote]
Lovely. They'll be able to diagnose transgenderism with a simple genetic test then won't they? Unless this turns out to be bollocks of course.