If born male you biologically stay male until you die? Yes?

[daisiesonmydress]

Just that really. That's my understanding. No matter how you dress or what surgery you have?

And you can legally say this too?

Given as how approximately 5% of transwomen have genital surgery, how will those who don't give birth? Are they imaging that the infant will be squeezed out through their urethra?

Or to paraphrase Monty Python: where are they going to gestate the infant? In a box?

And adding my voice to the poster who wants to see the survey. Odd how you can never produce any evidence for your extraordinary claims, @EmpressCixi.

Oh! An animal!

A weasel

With weasel words.

Cos obviously we've all been had!

As I said. Pigeon and chess!!

@abitofadvice1234

Someone wanting something is not believing they can have something. I don’t know why you’re arguing this. I would believe that, if given the opportunity, most trans women would likely want to be able to have kids in the same way cis women do. However the belief that one “can” change their chromosomes from xy to xx, or obtain the ability to give birth, is not held at all.

Again, watch the video.

I immediately dismiss a post if it uses "cis".

@Cuck00soup

It was donated to a woman then. An adult human female with all the other bits of woman to support a pregnancy.

Yes? The conversation started with a poster saying “if you knew anything about uterine transplants between women...”

So that is the conversation of these posts. Separate from the conversation about UTx into transwomen. But sadly, many are easily confusing the two.

@AlfonsoTheGoat

Given as how approximately 5% of transwomen have genital surgery, how will those who don't give birth? Are they imaging that the infant will be squeezed out through their urethra?

Or to paraphrase Monty Python: where are they going to gestate the infant? In a box?

And adding my voice to the poster who wants to see the survey. Odd how you can never produce any evidence for your extraordinary claims, @EmpressCixi.

You may not be aware but there is a surgical birth procedure called a c-section. No vagina necessary.

And so it continues.

What you thought I said I never said.

What I thought I said you didn't get.

Masterly weaseling

The MP mentioned is misinformed.

extract

A“motte and bailey doctrine” is a style of argument (and informal fallacy) that’s based on a motte-and-bailey castle. The bailey is a big courtyard and where people live and work and generally want to be. The motte is a mound with some kind of fortification on top, that’s used as a last refuge when the bailey is under attack.

Amotte and bailey doctrine for arguments goes like this:someone is usually making an argument from a big and comfortablecourtyard of ideas, being very liberal with their terms, accusations, and implications. But when someone attacks their argumentative “bailey”, they retreat to a “motte” of strict terms and/or rigorous reasoning. They can’t be attacked at the motte because even their opponent would agree with their definitions and reasoning. The problem is that the motte and the bailey are different arguments: oftento get to the bailey, additional assumptions are required; sometimes the arguments are even contradictory.

In short, to argue from the motte is to argue from a strongly defensible position, whereas to argue from the bailey is to make broad and far reaching statements that are poorly defended.

ashnavabi.com/2015/03/27/what-is-the-motte-and-bailey-fallacy-with-examples-from-economics/

Bit he is dead good as a username guide.

I occasionally wonder if I should change back.. and then think Nah! What would David do?

Motte, meet Bailey.

Bailey, meet Motte.

We don’t often get to see you two in the same room together! Never mind on multiple pages of the same thread. I was beginning to think you were like Superman and Clark Kent.

You must have so much to catch up on @abitofadvice1234 @EmpressCixi

Don’t let us interrupt you!

@EmpressCixi idk what you’re reading but it’s not what i’ve seen at all. It’s quite odd.

@EmpressCixi a direct quote from your earlier post

"In addition, a uterus including cervix can and has been successfully implanted in transwomen- attaching it to the neovagina and linking into the pelvic circulatory system which is the same in men and women anyway."

You are claiming that there has been a successful case of a uterus and cervix being implanted into a transwomen and connected to their neovagina. Where is your evidence that this has actually happened?

@HaroldMeeker

Womb transplants are not publicly available yet, never said they were. But surveys of transwomen indicate that over 70% would like a UTx if it were available.

Link to survey please. You should have it at your fingertips, seeing as you're such an expert. I'd love to see your source.

Sigh. Just this once. For everything else, google is your friend.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2775302

@Helleofabore

I am still waiting for confirmation that my Star Trek dreams will come true. Probably in the next 3 years.

That I can be recreated atom by atom to be modified exactly how I want to be.

Lovely. Not long to wait now.

But would you still be you?

@abitofadvice1234

The MP mentioned is misinformed.

And he was also one of the main instigators and proponents as a Cabinet Minister for the Gender Recognition Act 2004.

He would presumably, as a government minister responsible for the bill, have had a lot of contact with trans lobby groups. How odd it is that he became so misinformed.

@abitofadvice1234

The MP mentioned is misinformed.

We know....

[quote abitofadvice1234]@EmpressCixi idk what you’re reading but it’s not what i’ve seen at all. It’s quite odd.[/quote]
Google abitofadvice. Google and Dr. Google.

Sigh. Just this once. For everything else, google is your friend.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2775302

Whoops, that’s your position blown out of the water there, abitofadvice 😬

This is getting to be fun now.

Thanks!
Now how about all those other links people have repeatedly asked for? You must have that all to hand, too, you found this so quickly...

ErrolTheDragon

Oh Errol.

I would surely be the radically 'enhanced' me. I would still be biological so I would be a biological me. if you know what I mean.

But I agree.... would I be 'me'? And would it be 'authentic' me, because that word has been changed too. Rather than the 'me' that reflects how I envisioned myself so I changed my original body to match.... the very opposite of 'authentic' really...

[quote UltraVividLament]**@EmpressCixi a direct quote from your earlier post

"In addition, a uterus including cervix can and has been successfully implanted in transwomen- attaching it to the neovagina and linking into the pelvic circulatory system which is the same in men and women anyway."

You are claiming that there has been a successful case of a uterus and cervix being implanted into a transwomen and connected to their neovagina. Where is your evidence that this has actually happened?[/quote]
I'd like to see @EmpressCixi's response to this as they have not addressed this, despite addressing minor points.

This makes five times, I think, that this point has been raised.

Either the poster has fabricated that factoid or that factoid has been fabricated by the poster.

The thing is, if we are just talking about taking a female womb sticking it in a male, surely the womb on its own is pretty useless without the rest of the female body to go with it, and you would just as well insert something man-made instead?

Also, there is an opening in a womb to, ya know, allow to baby to get out, what would happen to that in a male body? Would it just be sort of sewn up because its useless?

Also, aren't women's pelvises specifically 'designed' to allow a foetus to grow, and allow all the other organs to continue to function as well? Isn't there a big risk that a foetuses development, or the function of other organs, would be significantly impaired in a male body?

@Sophoclesthefox

This study says very little to the point. Yes most trans women would LIKE to have that procedure. It does not mean that procedure exists, and it does not mean that Trans women believe that the procedure currently exists. I have never seen it argued outside of this group or fringe groups. I am certain that trans women, as a group, not just your cherry-picked commenters (you can always find them) believe they can currently have a uterus or change their chromosomes.

@Omicrone

The thing is, if we are just talking about taking a female womb sticking it in a male, surely the womb on its own is pretty useless without the rest of the female body to go with it, and you would just as well insert something man-made instead?

Also, there is an opening in a womb to, ya know, allow to baby to get out, what would happen to that in a male body? Would it just be sort of sewn up because its useless?

Also, aren't women's pelvises specifically 'designed' to allow a foetus to grow, and allow all the other organs to continue to function as well? Isn't there a big risk that a foetuses development, or the function of other organs, would be significantly impaired in a male body?

There you go again with your pesky biological reality.

I thought Panto season was over.

Ohhh no they didn't,

Ohhh yes they did.